User talk:Patashu

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Detailed analyses[edit source]

Just a word regarding the statistics on Piloted Shredder. While the detailed information is great, and welcome, it's worth noting that the more detailed you make something, the more maintenance it requires, the less durable it becomes to change, and the more problematic it becomes once change does happen. In this case, the info will be 100% accurate (presumably!) until new cards are added; at which point it will suddenly be inaccurate. This level of detail can't be automatically produced at this time, with the result that in order to keep it accurate, it will need to be updated each time cards are added to the game - at least twice a year, from the looks of things. This level of maintenance will need to be kept up for all time, essentially. If it isn't, the info will become increasingly inaccurate, and potentially misleading.

The info is welcome, but I thought I'd mention this overall characteristic of information resource maintenance :) If you're willing to take on the job of updating the info with each addition of cards, that's great; but it's always worth bearing in mind the burden often presented by trying to maintain such analyses, especially when investing time in creating such resources. -- Taohinton (talk) 02:28, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, good advice. I'm willing to keep it updated through the next adventure releases, after that will depend on if I'm still playing the game, hah. The paragraph starts with 'As of so and so expansion', so as long as people pay attention to that initial section they'll know if the information is up to date or not. I wonder if it's possible to make some kind of tag that produces a big warning box if Hearthstone is on a later Expansion than the Expansion the tag says? That would solve the problem for sure - either it's up to date or made obvious that it's not up to date. In the mean time - I feel like users being able to eyeball things like 'it will become a taunt X often' and 'it will have 3 or more attack X often' are worth the extra maintenance, because Piloted Shredder's value is predicated on how likely it is to produce what you want. --Patashu (talk) 08:16, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

All of my Hearthstone Science videos[edit source]

Just compiling them here just in case, since they ARE unlisted (don't want to spam my YT subscribers). Feel free to use these as references or to inspire future science, that's what they're here for!

Some of these are bug confirmations, some of these are demonstrating advanced or esoteric mechanics.

The mega Twilight Drake batch:

Ogre Brute + Traps box set, now including Snake Trap and Misdirection[edit source]

"The order of play was Snake, Brute, Explosive. The order of triggers was Explosive, (Brute redirects to a minion), Snake. One general observation is that Snake Trap seems to have a lower priority and only trigger if the FINAL target was a minion, unlike Explosive Trap and Misdirection which are greedily picked up along the way."

"The order of play was Brute, Misdirection, Freeze. It is unknown, if the brute had gone off, whether it would have gone off before or after Misdirection, but presumably it would go off before."

"The order of play is Explosive, Brute, Snake, Freezing. The order of triggers was Freezing, Snake. The goal was for Brute to start on a minion but redirect to face, but he didn't. So it is unknown whether Explosive would have triggered after Brute but before Freezing, or after Freezing but before Snake, or after Snake. One general observation is that Snake Trap seems to have a lower priority and only trigger if the FINAL target was a minion, unlike Explosive Trap and Misdirection which are greedily picked up along the way."

"00:00: Snake, Explosive, Brute, Misdirection. The attack happens at 1:14. The order of triggering is Explosive, Misdirection (now targetting minion), brute (now targetting face). Snake never goes off.

2:16: Snake, Brute becomes Brute, Snake. Snake triggers even though the board is full (a bug, since Noble Sacrifice handles this correctly).

4:38: Brute, Snakes, Freezing (with brute not activating) triggers Freezing, Snakes. Snakes seems to always go last, in all of our tests." <-- shows death processing can happen and then more triggers get processed <-- seems to show dominant player bug occurs for combat preparation triggers. notice the side bar indicates they were interleaving making Mogors, yet all of one player's Mogors go off first.

Here we find out that the dominant player bug exists, then we discover that the phase can't restart, then we discover that there's a high and low priority queue, then we nail down everything as being high or low. Righteous~

ok, back to non-trap videos[edit source]

Post Patch 2.7 science[edit source]

Post Patch 2.8 science[edit source]

Post Patch 3.0 science[edit source]

(This list is now defunct. Go to and to see all future uploads)

Things that are understood, but not properly documented yet[edit source]

Mirror Entity on minion kept alive via auras[edit source]

EDIT: Tested by culinko and SimFri in both directions:

Already a known interaction between Faceless Manipulator and a minion kept alive with Auras, but as far as I know no one's ever demonstrated it using Mirror Entity, so: <-- Do this again, with Dread Infernal vs three Explosive Sheep and Mirror Entity, but also have a friendly Stormwind Champion out on the field (buffed to 7 Health or more of course, so it survives). The Mirror Entity should make a 6/0 Dread Infernal and instantly die.

Dominant Player bug on Deathrattles?[edit source]

EDIT: Incidentally tested. It looks like the Ancestral Spirit has the controller of it's caster, but gets detached and removed from play when the death processing itself happens. Afterwards, the minion it was attached TO triggers (as opposed to the Ancestral Spirit itself triggering) and does the Ancestral Spirit effect, so it's in the order of play of the minion's controller, not the caster's. Leaving this section here while I think about what to write about it and where.

[14:16] <Patashu> you can cast ancestral spirit on an enemy minion. if the ancestral spirit entity has your player id as controller but the minion itself and its natural deathrattle have their player id as the controller, you could show the dominant player bug with deathrattles from two players on one minion by having the ancestral spirit go off FIRST

Stealing, Corruption, Nightmare, Blessing of Wisdom[edit source]

It seems that if you steal an enemy minion, the timing of Corruption and Nightmare becomes weird.

For example:

'If you Shadow Madness into Nightmare, your opponent doesn't get a chance to attack with it.'

'Ive done this where I stole a minion that had corruption on it, I got to use it, but then it went back on my opponents turn and they got to use it again before it died on the following turn.'

And from the logs, it seems like Shadow Madness forcefully changes the controller of all attached entities too. Maybe normal steals do also?

But we know Blessing of Wisdom explicitly uses its controller to figure out who gets the drawn card. So I'd also like to know the Blessing of Wisdom/Steal and Blessing of Wisdom/SM interaction.

We also know that stealing Conceal changes who the Conceal ends for:

EDIT: More:


EDIT 3: From this report, it looks like if you make a deep copy of a minion with Nightmare cast on it, the copy of Nightmare will have CONTROLLER set to you, not to the CONTROLLER of the original Nightmare:


[15:24] <Xinhuan> it would be very obtuse
[15:24] <Xinhuan> say you shadow madness an enemy minion X
[15:24] <Xinhuan> get X returned to the enemy via enemy syvanas
[15:24] <Xinhuan> then faceless X
[15:24] <Patashu> that would be funny lol
[15:24] <Xinhuan> what teh fuck happens at end of turn now

EDIT 5: Controller of Enchantment does not change anymore (since Patch 5.0), so this whole thing is pretty much irrelevant now. --PattuX (talk) 12:17, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

The 'humble safeguard'[edit source]

When a minion is played or summoned, it cannot trigger off of any event in its own Sequence. For example Knife Juggler does not throw a knife for itself and Questing Adventurer does not buff for itself and One-eyed Cheat does not Stealth for itself and Murloc Tidecaller does not buff for itself.

So far this is just an unstated, intuitive, 'obvious' rule - but now that we are thinking about other safeguards like the 'double safeguard' (a trigger cannot trigger twice on the same event, e.g. kt double ress failure), maybe it's time to start listing them?

EDIT: I guess there are safeguards/rules for 'X must still be in play and not have changed control for Y trigger to happen', stuff like that, that need to be explicit somewhere.

Buff on the Hero or Player?[edit source]

Some buffs attach to the Hero, some to the Player. It's impossible to tell them apart from the card text.

Crush[edit source]

When you have a healthy board and fatally trade a minion, Crush's mana cost bounces from 7 to 3 to 7.

So I guess Crush updates in Aura Update (Health/Attack) (implying Crush places a -4 mana cost Enchantment on itself as an Aura).

Tundra Rhino also places an Enchantment that grants Charge at Aura Update (Health/Attack) timing too, FYI.

Things that are partially documented, but need more work[edit source]

confusing aura thing[edit source]

EDIT: Tested it at . This shows the phenomenon off well. It still needs more testing but without an actual gameplay side-effect of the positional auras updating I can't think of anything that would actually make me update the advanced rulebook.

EDIT 2: Here we don't see the flametongue totem update attack values until the very end of the Death Phase. here we see Dr. Boom briefly have the dire wolf alpha aura before the piloted shredder spawned minion takes it. How does that work w/r/t the advanced rulebook rules as written? Because auras/enchantments are recalculated THEN death processing is done then we go straight to the death phase, there should be no point in time where it gets to give Dr. Boom the aura due to a recalculation (supported by things like the stormwind champion/explosive sheep/cone of cold test). So what is actually going on here?

supporting videos:

proposed test:

  • Stormwind Champion
  • Haunted Creeper
  • Dire Wolf Alpha/Flametongue Totem
  • Haunted Creeper
  • Knife Juggler

kill both creepers simultaneously but nothing else (knife juggler is there to slow the action down - stormwind champion is there to see how often health auras update, etc)

could also throw an explosive sheep death in to see how that changes things

EDIT 3: Confirmed in Patch 5.0:

EDIT 4: PattuX's theory

PattuX Patashu: so in my mind it is 1. Create a list of all relevant entities for Aura (A/H) --- 2. Run conditional Aura (A/H) where at least one condition is that a new entity entered play, others discussed in #325 --- 3. DCS --- 4. Guaranteed Aura Update (all), but using the list created earlier. This leads to: a) Dire Wolf updating between DCS and Death Phase

PattuX So this would explain the Dire Wolf weirdness, Mal'ganis saving Imps after he himself or a Voidcaller got killed by a Death's Bite, Ancestor's Call into Stormwind with Knife Jugglers killing something on Stormwind's side (I tested, mortally wounded Jugglers survive. basically same as Mal'Ganis saving imps, just that it's the before the first death phase

PattuX here) and #325. Couldnt think of anything that does not fit so far.

PattuX because it calculates adjacent minions dynamically b) dead Auras still updating because they are in the list created in 1. (so inconsistency with Aura (Other) is still there) --- 5. Death Phase

EDIT 5: dire wolf/stormwind champion test is interesting

START_MAIN card drawing and Flame Leviathan[edit source]

EDIT: We do something like this in but I'm not sure if it proves anything or not.

According to during MAIN_START you draw a card THEN minions killed this turn counters are reset to 0. But what if the card is Flame Leviathan? Are any kills from it not counted, or does something different happen in the logs?

Mid-Phase Removal and Auras[edit source]

  1. During a Death Phase, Stormwind Champion (or Dire Wolf Alpha) is removed by Anub'ar Ambusher. What happens?
  2. During a Death Phase, Auchenai Soulpriest or Baron Rivendare is removed by Anub'ar Ambusher. What happens?

EDIT: Untested (these specific minions anyway), but the answer is almost 100% going to be 'nothing'.

Forced Death Phase and Auras[edit source]

  1. Do Health/Attack changes from Auras recalculate due to a Forced Death Phase? How about ones like Dire Wolf Alpha/Flametongue Totem? (presuming no) EDIT: In this video when you reincarnate an Old Murk-Eye the other minions' attack drops to 5, then back up to 6 after the summon. So that seems to be a yes to me.
  2. Do other effects of Auras (Baron Rivendare, Auchenai Soulpriest, Mal'Ganis) leave the board when their owners do due to a Forced Death Phase? (presuming yes)

EDIT: Specific tests, with gameplay side-effects:

  1. does aura update (other) run before a forced death phase? (poison seeds on zombie chow and auchenai soulpriest, + other combinations)
  2. does aura update (health/attack) run after a forced death phase? (reincarnate on stormwind champion with a damaged minion out)
  3. does aura update (health/attack) run before a forced death phase? (high justice grimstone summons mal'ganis with a demon out, then mimiron's head triggers)

EDIT: 1 and 2 tested:

3 is impossible for now.

Chargers, Stealing, Exhaustion, Shadow Madness[edit source]

If a minion with Charge attacks+is stolen, then you steal it back, can you attack with it again?

If not, why does Shadow Madness work in a similar scenario (when it attacked on the enemy's previous turn and should thus still be exhausted)?

EDIT: Attack, get stolen, shadow madness it back, you can't attack with it. Would be nice to have a log, but now we know the outcome.

<Patashu> hey jleclanche, question
<Patashu> if you shadow madness a minion with charge
<Patashu> does it lose charge when it's given back?
<Patashu> or what if you shadow madness a non charge minion, cast Charge on it, and on the next turn mind control it
<jleclanche> it should lose charge

Would love video of the above ^

EDIT: Adys has tested this or something related to this, I'll have to talk to him about it

Trigger Re-entrancy Exploration[edit source]

We know in general that Hearthstone does a greedy, depth-first search w/r/t resolving events, triggers and consequences. But it seems that if a trigger occurs inside of itself, the tree is re-written in some way that post-pones it until after all of its consequences are finishing, but all the correct number of triggers still eventually occur.

This can be seen in two videos:

So a more complicated experiment is needed to better observe what is going on under the hood.

You have two Knife Jugglers and three Grim Patrons. Your opponent has two Knife Jugglers and four Grim Patrons. You play a Grim Patron. Your Knife Juggler 1 triggers and hits an enemy Grim Patron, summoning a new one. Your opponent's Knife Juggler 1 triggers and hits an ally Grim Patron, summoning a new one. Which Knife Juggler triggers next, and what happens after that?

(You can reduce it to two and three Grim Patrons respectively to get even more spawns at the cost of making it more RNG heavy - 36% instead of 44% chance to happen first try)

EDIT: Hunter of the North gets this exact scenario and something odd happens... the KJ can't juggle during consequences of its juggle, but it forgets to juggle later (like Acolyte of Pain remembers to trigger later and so does Mistress of Pain). Video: Explanation: link Tested in Patch (TGT pre-purchase patch)

EDIT 2: Hunter of the North gets a more complicated version of Flame Leviathans + Acolytes of Pain in 3.1. Notice how all of the Acolytes of Pain trigger once, then the last one triggers many times - and backwards in order of play, they each trigger many times before letting those older than them trigger once each.

In total, 16 flame leviathans run their on-draw effect, the Rogue has four Acolytes and the Priest has six Acolytes.

Rogue: draws 6 flame leviathans then takes fatigue 3-61 for a total of 16*4+1 draws

Priest: draws 10 flame leviathans, mills 2 flame leviathans then takes fatigue 6-89 for a total of 16*6 draws

So the correct amount of Acolyte triggers happen, but the order is unusual.

For example:

Acolyte #1 triggers once at the start, then 15 times just before Acolytes #2-10 trigger once each.

Acolyte #2 triggers once after Acolyte #1's first trigger, then at the end 14 times just before Acolytes #3-10 trigger once each, then one time after Acolyte #1 triggers 15 times.

Acolyte #3 triggers once after Acolyte #2's first trigger, then at the end 13 times just before Acolytes #4-10 trigger once each, then one time after Acolyte #2 triggers 14 times, then one time after Acolyte #2 triggers after Acolyte #1 triggers 15 times


Acolyte #10 triggers once then 6 times after Acolyte #9's first trigger, then once after Acolyte #9 triggers 7 times, then once after Acolyte #8 triggers 8 times -> Acolyte #9 triggers 1 time, then... etc.

So in total the triggers are ordered like the following (1 is Acolyte #1, 0 is Acolyte #10):


For a total of 16*10 = 160 triggers.

NEW Warsong Commander science[edit source]

It's possible for Charge to be added to and removed from a minion with the following timings:

1) Instantly, during the End of Turn Phase, when Shadow Madness triggers to end

2) Instantly, if the minion has Charge naturally or due to an Enchantment and is Silenced

3) (Needs to be tested: If a minion has Charge due to Tundra Rhino and is silenced, does it briefly lose Charge and get it again?)

4) During (which Aura Update step, (Health/Attack) or Other?), Southsea Deckhand gains/loses it based on you having a weapon or not

5) During (which Aura Update step, (Health/Attack) or Other?), Tundra Rhino gives/takes it from other minions if they enter play, the Rhino enters/leaves/changes sides in play, etc

Say that Warsong Commander updates in Aura Update (Health/Attack), but Tundra Rhino/Southsea Deckhand update in Aura Update (Other). This means there's a '1 Phase delay' whenever a Charge Aura turns on/off before Warsong Commander updates. This means you can do silly things like:

1) Begin an attack with Southsea Deckhand buffed to 3 Health, 2/3 Warsong and 1 Health Tirion into Explosive Trap. Between the Death Phase and Combat Phase, Aura Update (Health/Attack) runs and does nothing, then Aura Update (Other) runs and the Southsea Deckhand gains Charge, so it won't deal 1 extra damage in the Combat Phase.

2) Tundra Rhino - if it dies to Explosive Trap, it turns off between Combat Preparation Phase and Death Phase, so the +1 Attack is lost before the Combat Phase. (CONFIRMED for Tundra Rhino before Warsong and Warsong before Tundra Rhino: ) But if Explosive Trap kills your Deathlord and summons a Tundra Rhino for your enemy, the enemy Beast defender will gain Charge but not +1 Attack yet.

EDIT: By the way, I think it's an unproven assumption that Charge Auras update in Aura Update (Other). It's easy to test though - attack into Vaporize/Freezing with a Tundra Rhino or Southsea Deckhand, then play it and look at the log. EDIT 2: Darn, the Vaporize/Freezing Trap bug got fixed (TO_BE_DESTROYED is now cleared when played from the hand).

<Patashu> ok so seeing this log
<Patashu> I predict that Tundra Rhino/Southsea Deckhand gain/lose Enchantment in the Aura Update (Health/Attack) Step (which might need renaming?)
<Patashu> because it creates enchantments and attaches them in the same style health/attack auras divvy them out
<Patashu> and the attack/charge tag changes afterwards are intermingled together

Preparation vs Silence[edit source]

You can use Light's Champion to silence a Lord Jaraxxus Hero. ( ) It removes Frozen, temporary Attack and Repentance.

Preparation attaches an Enchantment to your Hero. So when your Hero is replaced, it is detached and ends:

Yet, it is unsilencable:

Notice the tag on the Preparation Enchantment, though: TAG_CHANGE Entity=86 tag=CANT_BE_DISPELLED value=1

So it explicitly can't be silenced? How does this kind of thing generalize?

Weird Solo Adventure science[edit source]

1) Corrupted Egg hatches when it has X or more Health. Is this an aura, trigger, or hard coded to work with his hero power only? How does it work? What if he also has a Knife Juggler out - surely it has to trigger in a Phase, right? (According to jleclanche, there's an invisible Deathrattle)

2) Does Siege Engine trigger when a Hero with Armour (such as Ragnaros from Majordomo) appears? YES:

3) If you give Rend Blackhand a Garrison Commander and he uses his Hero Power, does it refresh? How many times per turn?

4) Arcanotron gives both players Spell Damage +2. How does this interact with Master of Ceremonies? EDIT: Jungle Moonkin activates your Master of Ceremonies, so Arcanotron should too

5) [15:58] <jleclanche> Patashu: more science id like to do: mind control crystal + cho interactions - what happens when there's an understudy on the other side of the board?
[15:58] <jleclanche> example, shadow madness understudy + mind control crystal
[15:58] <jleclanche> and what happens when the opponent casts it

Things that I need video evidence for[edit source]

destroy bug minion vs Pre-Summon Reaction bug[edit source]

  • Just thought of an idea so crazy, I'm not sure how you'd test it (needs a Paladin minion, Hunter secret AND Mage secret).
  • So we know that a destroy bug card played from the hand destroys itself just before the battlecry.
  • And we know that if you use a Faceless Manipulator to turn into a Mech while a Cobalt Guardian is on the field, the transformation takes place and is reacted to not just before the Battlecry Phase, but before the played minion even hits the board (in theory)
  • So what if you play a destroy bug Faceless Manipulator and turn it into a Mech, say one with a deathrattle? Normally if you use a destroy bug Faceless Manipulator and turn it into something with a deathrattle, it dies before the battlecry it transforms itself in and so the deathrattle goes off. But visually if a Cobalt Guardian is around it transforms before even being fully played. So would it still destroy itself before the Battlecry Phase, or not anymore? And would the deathrattle go off if it did?
  • Instead of Cobalt Guardian and a deathrattle Mech, you could test with Murloc Tidecaller, a Murloc and a Slitfin Spiritwalker being in play. If it triggers, then it turned into a murloc before it died, otherwise it didn't. (So now you need a Shaman minion instead of a Paladin minion :p) Unfortunately no Murloc has a deathrattle yet.
  • A third way is to again use Murloc Tidecaller and a Murloc, and also have a Grimscale Oracle out. If the Faceless Manipulator turned Murloc gets the +1 attack aura before it dies, that means it transformed before the Battlecry Phase to be able to receive it in time.

Played Minion stolen mid-Sequence[edit source]

With an enemy Sylvanas at 1 Health, a played minion can be taken control over by the opponent player, for example just after the Battlecry Phase.

This indicates that Mirror Entity won't work. But what if the enemy has a Knife Juggler - does it go off? And so on.

EDIT: Repentance and Snipe go off on a played then stolen Jaraxxus. But is that because of the Jaraxxus-Repentance and Jaraxxus-Snipe hard coded interaction? Need a few more tests.

Various Graveyard tests[edit source]

The full list, to be tested vs. Mirror Entity, KT and Resurrect wherever possible:

Note that Explosive Sheep can be used as additional targets for KJ whenever Resurrect doesn't need to be casted, and Vaporize/Freezing Trap bug can be used in place of Illidan Stormrage+KJ whenever Resurrect doesn't need to be casted. ET and Shadowstep can be used for mana reduction to play out a large hand in one turn, and Power Word: Shield + Cho and similar combos can be used to make minions very high Health to survive a dangerous event, such as KT.


  1. Vol'jin (already tested, stats reset when the target or Vol'jin goes to the GY then Health swap happens normally)
  2. Summoning Battlecry (Dr. Boom, Gelbin Mekkatorque. Since they need a position to summon next to, does it work or fail? Are they summoned in the graveyard instead or not at all?)
  3. Self-Enchantment (e.g. Twilight Drake. Should happen in the graveyard, use MI to demonstrate))
  4. Self-Damage (e.g. Injured Blademaster. Should happen in the graveyard, use MI to demonstrate)
  5. Self-Transform (e.g. Faceless Manipulator. We know from screenshots that Mirror Entity gets post-transformed, but what does KT/Ress get?) (EDIT: KT gets pre-transform according to ZeroRin, no ss/video)
  6. Other-Transform (e.g. Recombobulator. Similar questions/assumptions to above)
  7. AoE damage (e.g. Dread Infernal. Presumably happens anyway)
  8. AoE buff (e.g. Enhance-o. Persumably happens anyway)
  9. Onyxia (Does she summon 6 whelps, 7 whelps or 0 whelps if you clear the board first?)
  10. Adjacent-Enchantment (e.g. Defender of Argus. We know from a screenshotless report that it will not taunt anything)
  11. Cabal Shadow Priest (If the target goes to the GY first, does it change sides in the GY? If so, who gets to ress it with KT/Ress?)


  1. Bane of Doom, Mortal Coil (already tested)
  2. Slam, Acolyte of Pain, Frothing Berserker (demonstrate if on-damage triggers work)
  3. Frostbolt, Loot Hoarder, Flesheating Ghoul (demonstrate if on-death triggers and deathrattles work)
  4. Cone of Cold (just re-use the footage again, similar to argus it does nothing)
  5. Swipe (just re-use the footage, AoE part works)
  6. Sap (Does the minion return to your hand? Does KT/Ress work afterwards?)
  7. Recycle (Does the minion return to your deck? Does KT/Ress work afterwards?)
  8. Mind Control (Does the minion change sides in the GY? If so, who gets to ress it with KT/Ress?)
  9. Shadow Madness (What on earth does this do?)
  10. Hex/Polymorph (The minion transforms in the GY, but what does KT/ress bring back?) (EDIT: KT gets pre-transform according to ZeroRin, no ss/video)
  11. Reincarnate? (Does the minion appear on the board or remain in the GY?)
  12. Shadowflame (If the target of Shadowflame goes to the graveyard, does it still deal its attack in damage to all enemies? Does it become TO_BE_DESTROYED?) (looks like if the target of Shadowflame is in hand, it is discarded! ctrl+f Shadowflame and look at the last result)


  1. MALORNE (If he dies before a spell, battlecry or mirror entity, what is the interaction? Does he go to the graveyard or is he somehow damaged/copied out of the deck??)


Dimension X (type of effect)

  1. Being the source of a battlecry (either kind), or being the target of a targetted battlecry (including Perdition's Blade)
  2. Being the target of a spell
  3. Mirror Entity

Dimension Y (zone target/source ends up in first)

  1. The other side of the Play zone (Illidan+KJ+Sylvanas, Spellbender)
  2. The Graveyard (Illidan+KJ, VT+KJ, Full Zone = Instant Destruction)
  3. The Hand (Anub'ar Ambusher)
  4. Setaside (Malorne, Lord Jaraxxus) (Proof Malorne goes to Setaside and not The Deck:

Dimension Z (what the effect does)

  1. Move: The other side of the Play zone (Cabal Shadow Priest, Mind Control, Shadow Madness, Kezan Mystic)
  2. Move: The Graveyard (Full Zone = Instant Destruction)
  3. Move: The Hand (Sap, Dream, Shadowstep, Brewmaster)
  4. Move: The Deck (Recycle)
  5. Move: Setaside (Is this possible?)
  6. Transform (Polymorph, Hex, Recombobulator, Faceless Manipulator)
  7. Damage/Modify Health/Modify Attack/Spell Damage+1/Silence
  8. Other (Reincarnate, Shadowflame, Summon-Beside, Buff-Beside, AoE Buff, AoE Summon (Onyxia))

The Followup (pick all that apply)

  1. Resurrect
  2. Kel'Thuzad
  3. Play it

[10:55] <ZeroRin> questions are raised like how will jaraxxus behave
[10:55] <ZeroRin> or will a blademaster die
[10:56] <Patashu> yeah jaraxxus and blademaster need to be tried
[10:56] <Patashu> another one is being transformed in the hand
[10:56] <Patashu> what else, oh
[10:56] <Patashu> cabal on minion in the hand?
[10:56] <Patashu> does it go to your hand?
[10:56] <Patashu> that would be funny
[10:57] <Patashu> also recycle on minion in the hand
[10:57] <ZeroRin> that's a good idea
[10:57] <Patashu> back in the deck!
[10:57] <Patashu> also
[10:57] <Patashu> sap on minion in the hand when you have 10 cards
[10:57] <Patashu> it might think that the hand is full and get destroyed LOL
[10:57] <ZeroRin> lol we got many works to do
[10:57] <Patashu> also
[10:57] <Patashu> murloc tidehunter in the hand
[10:57] <Patashu> do you get the scout in the hand, in the playfield, not at all?
[10:58] <Patashu> and then after that, argus in the hand
[10:59] <ZeroRin> ancient mage also?
[10:59] <Patashu> lol yes, ancient mage too
[11:00] <Patashu> another amusing one would be shadowflame
[11:00] <Patashu> it should do the damage and become destroy bugged in the hand
[11:00] <Patashu> so you play it and it dies immediately


<WillyK> question: will cone of cold freeze a minion in hand, or minions adjust it?

(looks like it can freeze minions in play!! ctrl+f cone of cold and look at the last result)


<Patashu> as a reminder, I still want to see: recombobulator crash, recycle from hand, recycle from graveyard, self-transformer in hand + mirror entity, self-transformer in graveyard + mirror entity and ress/KT, shadowflame from hand then play the minion

<Patashu> thought of some others I want to see tested: move to hand, hand is full (10/10) then sap/bounce into same hand, does the card get discarded or stay in place? steal earth elemental, who gets overload?


<Patashu> thought of two things I want to see w/r/t battlecries/spells in the hand

<Patashu> 1) play shadow madness on an enemy minion, it goes into the hand first

<Patashu> 2) get the shadow madness buff on a friendly minion (it must survive the setup), faceless it and have faceless return to the hand first

(also mind control/cabal ofc)

We also need to test force play (such as Alarm-o-Bot or Ancestor's Call) to see if it also resets tags/keeps enchantments.


<ZeroRin> question, will a armorsmith trigger if a minion in hand takes damage, and will a acolyte of pain trigger if it's damaged in hand

<jleclanche> Patashu: I want to test whether minions get enraged when they are damaged in the hand

<jleclanche> Patashu: specifically, spiteful smith

(angry chicken vs hobgoblin would also be interesting, for example)

EDIT: enrage, on-damage trigger, deathrattle and mortal coil in hand tested here: and here:

-=- Apparently if you cast Velen's Chosen on something in the graveyard, you keep the spell damage +1 forever?

EDIT: seems it works indeed!


<ZeroRin> saw a interesting test: stealing millhouse before battlecry, and your spells cost 0 THIS turn

EDIT: Recycle on enemy minion stolen before spell places the new copy in your opponent's deck, as of Patch 4.0:

EDIT 2: Malorne + Polymorph/Recombobulator 1) puts the morphed minion on top of the deck 2) reveals it to your opponent when drawn

EDIT 3: Velen's Chosen on a minion in non-play gives the player spell damage +1 until the minion changes zones.

EDIT 4: We could get multiple DRs on the same Raptor by using battlecries in-hand. jleclanche also wonders if it's malorne-specific that added DRs do not trigger after the minion enters the Deck zone - we can test by Raptoring Malorne's DR and then putting added DRs on the raptor, for example.

<jleclanche> Patashu: Raptor on Malorne + Skeleton Knight. Play raptor in an empty deck, and trigger its deathrattle so that it wins its OWN JOUST and returns ITSELF from the deck to the hand

Lava Shock vs Overload > Maximum pt 2[edit source]

Me and GetHacked found out that if you have e.g. Overload 10 and 9 max mana, and cast Lava Shock for 0, you go to 9/9. This is because you were really at -1/9 and unlocking all 10 brings you to 9/9, of course.

But what if you play The Coin first? Do you go to 10/9? (presuming yes)

Infinite Duration Freeze - Perfect Time Loop[edit source]

Make your opponent's Lorewalker Cho Frozen, then play Sylvanas and Gang Up on it.

Now each player does the following: Gang up enemy Sylv, Naturalize enemy Sylv, play a Sylv.

Because Lorewalker Cho will never be in the player's control (for either player) when the turn is ended, he will never unfreeze.

And because every turn you add 3 cards to your deck and draw 3 cards, it's a perfect time loop that only ends because of the maximum turn limit.


Edge cases:

  1. In general, when does unfreezing occur? (e.g. during what STEP in the logs)
  2. If you play a minion, freeze it then end your turn, does it unfreeze? (Adys says yes; that he's tested it himself)
  3. If you mind control a frozen minion then end your turn, does it unfreeze?
  4. If you shadow madness a frozen minion then end your turn, does it unfreeze with what timing?

Lord Jaraxxus vs Mirror Entity[edit source]

If you play Lord Jaraxxus, he loses Health before the Battlecry Phase then Mirror Entity goes off, does ME get a refreshed Jaraxxus or the damaged Jaraxxus?

Funny Grim Patron Cascade[edit source]

The board:

Player A: Unstable Ghoul 1 Health, 2 Health, 3 Health, 4 Health, 5 Health, 6 Health, 7 Health
Player B: 1 Grim Patron 3 Health

Equip over your Death's Bite with a second Death's Bite.

Sequence is as follows:

2, 3

1, 3, 2, 3

0, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3
-> 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3

1, 3, 2, 0, 2, 1, 2
-> 1, 3, 2, 2, 1, 2

0, 2, 3, 1, 1, 0, 1
-> 2, 3, 1, 1, 1

1, 3, 2, 3, 0, 0, 0
-> 1, 3, 2, 3

0, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3
-> 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3

1, 3, 2, 0, 2, 1, 2
-> 1, 3, 2, 2, 1, 2

Equip over your second Death's Bite with a Fiery War Axe.

0, 2, 3, 1, 1, 0, 1
-> 2, 3, 1, 1, 1

Spam Whirlwinds!

1, 3, 2, 3, 0, 0, 0
-> 1, 3, 2, 3

0, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3
-> 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3


(btw, positioning won't be exactly like this, I didn't keep track of order of play. But positioning doesn't affect the outcome at all.)

Jaraxxus, Majordomo, Repentance, Snipe[edit source]

Adys says: something id like to see is what happens when you summon jaraxxus and kill your majordomo at the same time, and you're facing snipe/repentance

[08:55] <Patashu> btw here's how you'd do it
[08:55] <Patashu> to end up as ragnaros: majordomo at 1 health on your side of the board, death's bite equipped when you play jaraxxus
[08:55] <Patashu> to end up as jaraxxus: majordomo dies to an illidan cascade first

EDIT: first case tested, secrets trigger within the battlecry phase for jaraxxus second case isnt too interesting i think

The Grand Tournament science[edit source]

Removing everything that's confirmed.

Lock and Load

  1. Does Lock and Load queue in order of play in the same Phase as other 'whenever you cast a spell' such as Gadgetzan Auctioneer?


  1. The minion that gains Windfury when you Inspire it - when it wears off, is permanent Windfury lost or kept? --> It is kept, probably it didn't make the temporary enchantment that tells it to remove Windfury later, similar to Conceal and Stealth
  2. Confessor summoning Mal'Ganis followed by Spawn of Shadows hitting your face - proof Auras don't update in the middle of the Inspire Phase

Fjola Lightbane & Eydis Darkbane

Note is our current understanding, and will need some updating as we do these tests.

1a) We have two videos that show Spellbender triggering after Dragonkin Sorcerer, even when Dragonkin Sorcerer is played second. However, the +1/+1 does not visually show, and these tests were done before the Dominant Player Bug was discovered. Therefore, we should find out if Spellbender and Dragonkin Sorcerer really trigger in the same Phase in Dominant Player order. (If they do, we could prove it by making Spellbender Token trigger Knife Juggler to mortally wound Dragonkin Sorcerer, who saves himself by getting +1/+1)
1b) And if they ARE two different Phases, what Steps run between them?
1c) Are Dragonkin Sorcerer, Eydis Darkbane and Fjola Lightbane all equal priority, same Phase triggers?
2) What happens if you target your Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fjola/Eydis with a spell, but consequences of the On Play Phase (such as VT+KJ+Explosive Sheep)...
2a) kill the targeted minion first?
2b) bounce it back to your hand?
2c) steal the minion to the opposing player?
3) After Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fjola/Eydis and before the Spell Text Phase, what Steps run?
3a) Death Creation Step? (easiest and most important to test)
3b) Aura Update (Health/Attack)? (very likely because you see Dragonkin Sorcerer's +1/+1 appear before the spell starts to resolve. Note that Enchantments are immediate, but the visual update is the same timing as Aura Update (Health/Attack)
3c) Aura Update (Other)? (not sure of how to test)
3d) Summon Resolution Step? (not sure of how to test)
4) Is this a bug or a dud?
EDIT: visual bug

Darnassus Aspirant

  1. What happens if you use Darnassus Aspirant + Baron Rivendare/Feign Death/etc to try and reach negative current/negative maximum mana? (We could already observe with Felguard, Summoning Portal and Shadowstep, but now that they made a new minion with this behaviour that's easier to control, it would be good to double check how it all works)

The Skeleton Knight and Anub'arak

  1. For the purposes of KT/Ress, did it die? (very likely yes)


  1. Interaction with Giants (do they cost 0 if they reduce cost at all? does whether you drew the giant before or after Aviana matter? what if the Giant is bounced back to your hand? generated mid-game? etc...)


  1. Play Duplicate, play Chillmaw, opponent kills your Chillmaw with no dragons in hand. Does Chillmaw's Deathrattle fire off of the Chillmaw copies on the same Death Event? Doesn't work, probably because other 'holding a dragon' targeted Battlecries also check twice:

Dragonhawk Rider

  1. Dragonsafe tested permanent then temporary, and it remains permanent. But what about temporary then permanent?

Competitive Spirit

  1. It requires a minion on the board to trigger. (Is this a queue condition, trigger condition or both? Currently no Start of Turn Phase trigger allows us to explore this unfortunately.) EDIT: so just queueing. --PattuX (talk) 13:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Power Word: Glory

  1. If you cast it on an enemy minion and an Auchenai Soulpriest is out, who has to own the Soulpriest for the healing to be flipped to damage, you or the enemy?
  2. Does Power Word: Glory have the minion as the source of the damage/healing?
  3. If it's flipped to damage, is the source the minion or the enchantment? If it's the minion, it breaks stealth. This can matter because combat might cancel due to the defender dying, which means it wouldn't have broken stealth naturally.
  4. Presumably if you steal it, the CONTROLLER changes to the new owner of the minion. But, the hero who gets healed isn't changed, like Blessing of Wisdom. But, who's side of the board we check for an Auchenai Soulpriest should change.

Enter the Coliseum

  1. If you have multiple minions with the same highest attack value, which one survives? (presumed randomly but no proof?)


  1. What timing does this minion trigger with? Test by equipping over a Death's Bite with the following: Perdition's Blade, using the Wicked Knife Hero Power, playing Jaraxxus/Blingtron/Arathi Weaponsmith, Tirion dying, etc

Fallen Hero

  1. Does it go before or after Prophet Velen?

Crowd Favorite

  1. Does it get a buff from Perdition's Blade? Only when not Combo'd or always? (could shoot the Crowd Favorite with it lol)

EDIT: always --PattuX (talk) 23:55, 5 July 2016 (UTC)


  1. Burgle gives you 2* The Coin against Rag, Warlock cards against Jaraxxus

Gormok the Impaler

  1. To have a consistent model of how targetted battlecries/spells and targetting conditions vs normal conditions work, Gormok the Impaler must NOT fire if you give him a target, but during the On Play Phase and subsequent Death Phases, you no longer have four other minions on your side of the field. ( Turns out that it DOES work even if you no longer satisfy the condition, which contradicts Blackwing Corruptor/Rend Blackhand)

Hero replaced while preparing to attack[edit source]

What happens if your Hero is replaced while you prepare to attack? (equip Truesilver Champion, enemy Shadowboxer hits your allied Majordomo Executus)

EDIT: --PattuX (talk) 14:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Savagery for 0 pops Divine Shield?[edit source]

For all of the below, do they pop divine shield and are they affected by Spell Damage +1:

Savagery, 0 attack hero IS effected by Spell Damage +1:

Holy Wrath, 0 mana cost Does NOT pop divine shield and is NOT effected by Spell Damage +1:

Holy Wrath, fatigue

Shield Slam, 0 Armor DOES use Spell Damage +1:

Shadowflame, 0 attack minion (supposedly uses Spell Damage +1)

Blade Flurry, 0 attack weapon (NOT effected by Spell Damage +1: )

Betrayal, 0 attack minion (not affected by spell damage, so only popping divine shield)

Lightbomb, 0 attack minion

We can also test 0 Attack Weapon and 0 Attack Minion vs Divine Shield. use spiteful smith + gorehowl into knife juggler + snake trap, or 0 attack minion + dire wolf alpha into knife juggler + snake trap

EDIT: I think everything is fixed except Forbidden Healing + Soulpriest nowadays. Tracked at

[15:06] \<culinko> ok so savagery and lightbomb both work correctly with 0 attack + spell damage (even with divine shields)

[15:06] \<culinko> the only remaining test would be betrayal

Further 0 Attack vs Stealth tests[edit source]

We FINALLY tested 0 Attack vs Stealth. Results are here:

1) If you have Stealth, attack and your target dies in the Death Processing Step following the Combat Preparation Phase (likely due to Snake Trap - Knife Juggler - Imp Gang Boss - Knife Juggler - intended target), do you still break STEALTH? Or what if the defender dies in the Death Processing Step following the first Death Phase (so an Explosive Sheep dying and killing the intended target)?

2) If you attack with One-eyed Cheat, and the Death Phase following the Combat Preparation Phase summons a friendly Pirate (likely due to explosive trap - explosive sheep - deathlord, or also due to ancestral spirit), do you break STEALTH a second time or retain it even through doing damage? What if the defender is no longer in play and the attack is cancelled, or your defender has Ice Block/Immune and thus no Damage Event is created (or if Bolf Ramshield prevents the Damage Event) - is the new STEALTH retained?

3) If you use an Immune attacker, but due to Misdirection it attacks into a Stealthed enemy minion instead, does the Stealthed enemy minion retain Stealth (because no Damage Event was created)?

4) If a Stealthed Knife Juggler throws a knife at an Immune enemy, does it break Stealth? (You can also test something like - have stealthed Wrathguard and Bolf Ramshield, damage the Wrathguard, it damages your Hero which would normally break Stealth, but since Bolf Ramshield intercepts the damage Wrathguard remains in Stealth)

5) If a Stealthed Knife Juggler triggers but there are no targets (every enemy is mortally wounded), does it break Stealth?

EDIT: Partially tested here:

Ancestor's Call order of play[edit source]

Which minion is considered to be played first? Your opponent's? Your's? The Dominant Player's? The Secondary Player's? Random? Something else (like entity ids)?

EDIT: I think it's the ally's, because it is for Desert Camel and Coldlight Oracle. But we really need to test it! D: Note that the force play/play order bug is gone, so now it's going to be something deterministic.

Redirection vs Stealth[edit source]

1) Can Ogre Brute redirect into a stealthed minion if it is the only other target on the board (attacking face)?

2) Can Misdirection redirect a minion into a stealthed minion? (We know it doesn't trigger if the only other targets are stealthed minions.) EDIT: As of 3.1, it can! Tested by culinko, no video.

3) Can Ogre Brute choose a mortally wounded minion? What if the Ogre Brute itself is mortally wounded?

4) Can Misdirection choose a mortally wounded minion? What if the attacker itself is mortally wounded?

Silence in Hand vs Targeted Battlecry[edit source]

You know, we never tested what happens if you silence a targeted Battlecry minion in the hand, then play it, because it's technically not silenced until it leaves your hand, which is after you target it. I wonder what would happen...

Faceless Manipulator death timing[edit source]

tl;dr: faceless manipulator on a minion (that ultimately has 0 Health) doesn't die before the After Play Phase. so, why is that? hasn't been retested since TGT though, so...


the most obscure and irrelevant interface bug[edit source]

I just discovered a really obscure interface bug. If you open the 'quest' window BEFORE you get your new daily quest (and you've used your reroll), wait until you've gotten your new daily quest, then you reroll a quest, the window closes automatically instead of showing you what you got. You are not notified of getting your new daily quest. Opening the 'quest' window again correctly shows your daily quests post reroll.

Bouncing Blade[edit source]

What happens if Bouncing Blade hits a Grim Patron, summoning a Grim Patron, triggering a Knife Juggler, which reduces a minion to 0 Health? Does that cause Bouncing Blade to end? What if the minion reduced to 0 Health is the exact minion Bouncing Blade just hit (such as by sending knives back and forth)?

League of Explorers Science[edit source]

Unearthed Raptor:

  • Xinhuan wants to know if there's a crash or bug if Unearthed Raptor targets a minion that is moved to Graveyard/Setaside/Hand first.
  • How come all the Unearthed Raptors and the extra Nerubian are spontaneously blowing up?

Brann Bronzebeard:

  • Is he coded by making the Battlecry Phase be a Phase of two Power Events instead of one, or are there two Phases/a Forced Death Phase/some other mechanism? (Good cards to test:)
    • Void Terror
    • Crazed Alchemist/Vol'jin plus Auras
    • targeted Damage (Ironforge Rifleman, Voodoo Doctor + Auchenai Soulpriest)/all character AoE damage (Dread Infernal, Darkscale Healer + Auchenai Soulpriest)/all hero AoE damage (Refreshment Vendor + Auchenai Soulpriest)/all minion AoE damage (does this not exist, except indirectly via Blingtron and Death's Bite? wtf. and that doesn't even need Brann lol) vs Deathrattle/on-damage trigger
    • Bloodsail Corsair on a 1 Durability weapon
    • Youthful Brewmaster to a hand filled by the result
    • Blood Knight
    • Mind Control Tech against 4 minions
    • Cabal Shadow Priest with 5 minions (since the board is full when the second Battlecry resolves, it should destroy the new minion)
    • Bomb Lobber (will it overkill a 0 Health minion)
    • Harrison Jones (instant weapon destruction should mean second trigger does nothing)
    • Stampeding Kodo (I bet it can pick the same 2 attack minion twice lol)
    • anything with Overload to double the Overload
    • Hungry Crab (destroy once, gain +4/+4))
    • Dark Iron Skulker
    • Lord Jaraxxus when your weapon is a Charged Hammer (does your Hero Power become Jolt before or after the 2nd Jaraxxusing? Does Jaraxxusing twice fool the hard-coded interaction of Repentance and Snipe (and Sacred Trial...?) and make them not hit the 2nd, final Jaraxxus?), Lord Jaraxxus with Death's Bite and opponent having an Axe Flinger
    • Echoing Ooze (good chance of bug)
  • How does he interact with Morph Battlecries? (self-transformers and other-transformers)
    • Example 1: Faceless a Beast with Brann out. You also have a Starving Buzzard out. Does the Buzzard trigger once or twice? (Similar for a Knight of the Wild in your hand)
    • Example 2: Faceless an enemy Brann. Does the Faceless trigger once or twice?
    • Example 3: Double Recombobulate with Brann out. How do Special Summon Resolution Step triggers interact? (For example, if you get a Beast that would trigger Starving Buzzard, then transform it away a second time)
    • Example 4: Double Recombobulate with Brann out. Get a Health Aura then get something else. The Aura should have 0 effect. (Or double Faceless a Health Aura. It shouldn't go on-off-on, it should just go on.)
    • Example 5: Faceless a Murloc Tidecaller with Brann out. What happens?
    • Example 6: Faceless a Battlecry Minion with two Rumbling Elementals out and enemy DR minions (eggs, belchers, etc). What happens?
    • Example 7: Your opponent has Repentance, Snipe, Mirror Entity and Sacred Trial (which will trigger). Faceless something with Brann out. Do the Secrets work as intended or bug out?
    • Recombobulate always gets the same thing twice?
  • Does he help Combo/Choose One? What about King's Defender/Coghammer/Argent Lance (a Battlecry Weapon)? What about Perdition's Blade (which is Battlecry OR Combo, and isn't a minion)? works with perdition's blade, and coghammer seems to work fine too
  • He updates in Aura Update (Other), right? (If so, if he dies before the Battlecry Phase begins, no doubling. If he enters play/comes under your control before the Battlecry Phase, he's now doubling. But if he's mortally wounded during the Battlecry Phase, or appears during the Battlecry Phase, nothing changes.)
  • something funky about extra aura updates:

[16:47] <ZeroRin_> also, put void terror adjust to an 2/3, its stats visually become 5/6 and then the second battlecry animation go off and it visually become 7/9
[16:49] <ZeroRin_> i tested that with raid leader also... the same visual effect

Anyfin Can Happen:

  • Can it summon the same Murloc that died more than once?
  • You could use this to reason about 'double killing' such as...
    • Target a murloc with fatal damage, but it dies before battlecry/spell and is hit in the graveyard. (Then do it again with a Destroy effect.)
    • Double-BGH a murloc using Brann.
    • Move a murloc to the graveyard and bounce it back to your hand, play it again, kill it again.
    • Faceless a murloc, but the faceless dies before battlecry and transforms in the graveyard (prove with Mirror Entity). Then play Anyfin.

Naga Witch:

  • The usual story - it's order of play with all Mana Cost enchantments/auras with no special priority, right? Or wrong? (finally test Aviana, Wilfred Fizzlebang, ET, Mechwarper, Freezing Trap, Summoning Portal, Giants, Crush, etc etc)

Jungle Moonkin & Master of Ceremonies:

Sir Finley Mrrgglton:

  • Can he offer the Hero Power you already have?
  • What if you upgrade it? Will he offer the basic version?

Cursed Blade & Animated Armor:

  • How is this implemented? A Predamage trigger? An on-damage Trigger? An Aura (in the style of Massive Runeblade, which gains ATK whenever the opposing hero is the defender and the current hero is the attacker, all of which is done by looking at tags)? EDIT: probably predamage trigger
    • Example 1 (Cursed Blade): Your Cursed Blade and Abomination get Sabotaged. Do you take double damage?
    • Example 2 (Cursed Blade): You have a Cursed Blade out, and target yourself with Perdition's Blade. Do you take double damage?
    • Example 3 (Cursed Blade): You equip over your Death's Bite with a Cursed Blade, triggering an enemy Axe Flinger or a friendly Wrathguard. Do you take double damage?
    • Example 4 (Cursed Blade): Your Cursed Blade is Harrisoned, drawing a Sea Reaver, triggering an enemy Axe Flinger. Do you take double damage?
    • Example 1 (Animated Armor): If Ice Block is played before Animated Armor, you have 2 Health and you take 2 damage, does Ice Block prevent the damage or do you take 1 damage? (Then test other order of play.)
    • Example 2 (Animated Armor): If Bolf is played before Animated Armor and you take 2 damage, does Bolf take 1 or 2 damage? (Then test other order of play.)
  • Does Cursed Blade work all the time, or only on your turn? (All the time: )
  • The Steel Sentinel (boss) takes double damage if he gets Cursed Blade from Blingtron, interestingly
  • Cursed Blade + 1.2 billion attack minion sounds funny!

Desert Camel & Ancestor's Call:

  • Needs to be documented as having the force play/order of play bug.
  • Can be used to investigate Ancestor's Call style 'so which one entered the battlefield first PLUS which one is older for the purposes of simultaneous death events (they're orthogonal) interaction.

Eerie Statue:

  • (very likely to not abort) If you start an attack with Eerie Statue, but gain minions on your side of the field before the attack begins (hard to do...), does the attack continue or abort?
  • Oh wait, this minion can't attack if your opponent has minions?? So it 1) sucks 2) the test is easier at least (just have your opponent have no minions, but a Noble Sacrifice in play) EDIT: tested.

Curse of Rafaam -> Cursed!:

Reno Jackson:

  • Does he use the current state of your deck, or the past state?
  • Does he heal for 30, HEALTH or DAMAGE, or is it an Alex-style effect? (test using Soulpriest)

Summoning Stone:

Mortally Wounded + Pending Destroy is Double Death?[edit source]

If a minion is both Mortally Wounded and Pending Destroy (such as an FoN treant with Baron Geddon on the field), does it create one or two Death Events? Test with Cult Master buffed to have extra health for example.

More LoE bugs/changes[edit source] - overload is now a cost? (EDIT: tested this more later, I have videos to put up about the 4.1 model and I'll do that soon) if you discover a card, but disconnect and reconnect before picking, you cannot interact with the choices (EDIT: filed in hs-bugs) broken with noz?

Special Summon Resolution Step existence[edit source]

We know that triggers in the After Summon Phase don't run if the played minion is already removed from play.

We also know that the Summon Resolution Step following the After Summon Phase is the Special Summon Resolution Step, which empties the Summon Event Queue AND the Transformation Event Queue (for example, if you play a DotC and it transforms into a Beast, your friendly Starving Buzzard does not trigger until the Special Summon Resolution Step).

But what if you transform into a Beast, but the transformed into Beast dies before the After Summon Phase? (Or use a Recombobulator and get a Beast, for example.) Does the Special Summon Resolution Step still occur?


It's a good question, but currently not possible to test, because currently minions cannot die between the After Play Phase and the After Summon Phase:

So file this away under 'test in the far future'

Extra Summon Resolution Step[edit source]

<DicePower> So normally Summon Events are created and stored until the next (Special) Summon Resolution Step, which usually occurs at the end of each Phase, but sometimes they have to wait longer (i.e., Summon Events triggering from a minion Summoned during the After Play Phase have to wait until after the After Summon Phase, because there is no (S)SR Step after the After Play Phase), right? But what if a minion is Summoned during the

<DicePower> Special Summon Resolution Step (Buzzard draws Sea Reaver with consequences eventually leading to a Summon), and no further Death Phases occur in the Sequence? Does the Summon Event Queue carry over to the next (S)SR Step, which might be part of a completely different type of Sequence?

<Patashu> during the summon resolution step following the after summon phase, a starving buzzard draws a sea reaver which damages a dragon egg/grim patron/imp gang boss, and you also have commanding shout cast

When does POWERED_UP update?[edit source]

(POWERED_UP is a tag used for the golden glow of cards)

<jleclanche> Patashu: re when powered_up updates
<jleclanche> Patashu: I think what happens is it updates every tag update
<jleclanche> +BUT
<jleclanche> it *could* just update every time an option is given
<jleclanche> in fireplace it updates every tick
<jleclanche> so there's potential for perf improvements
<jleclanche> id like to test this actually
<jleclanche> i know POWERED_UP is set even if the card is not playable

EDIT: possibly related? drawn blackwing corruptor has yellow border, one in hand has green border, no dragons in hand

another report:

Instant Weapon Destruction needs re-testing[edit source]

<Patashu> Harrison Jones + Brann vs Tirion + Death's Bite test
<Patashu> ok, interestingly the DR of the death's bite is delayed until after the second tirion activation
<Patashu> I wonder if 'instant weapon destruction' mechanic got changed in some patch?

EDIT: Re-tested and death's bite/grim patron/sabotage is still bugged like it used to be.

Maybe we should test Brann with Blingtron 5000 over DR weapon, Jaraxxus over DR weapon, etc

EDIT: It's a bug with Brann Bronzebeard. Opened:

Multiple Forced Death Phases[edit source]

Reincarnate copied by Djinni will make a Forced Death Phase in the After Spell Phase.

Currently this isn't super useful - you can have it happen after Flamewaker and Wild Pyromancer, but they have a low priority so you can't mix FW/WP and Djinni in arbitrary ordering. But if they ever change the timing of Djinni, we could use this to do funny things (like kill a DR minion and what's inside the DR in the same Phase).

EDIT: Idea!

  • We can test if Djinni of Zephyrs is a queuing condition or a trigger condition. Reincarnate a friendly Djinni of Zephyrs with a Knife Juggler and at least one other Djinni in play and an enemy Sylvanas on 1 health. As soon as a knife mortally wounds Sylvanas, the next Djinni trigger will kill Sylvanas and (hopefully) steal the Knife Juggler (the minion Reincarnate was cast on initially). If the remaining Djinni do not trigger, then we know it's a trigger condition. If they do, we know it's a queuing condition. (Maybe this can be made more consistent with wild pyro?)
  • We can test if Djinni of Zephyrs still triggers even if stolen (but it shouldn't - see related Dominant Player Bug/Split Queue tests). Same test as above, except a Djinni who hasn't triggered yet is stolen, instead of the Knife Juggler.
  • We can test if Aura Update (Health/Attack) runs before a Forced Death Phase. Have a friendly Stormwind Champion that dies to a Wild Pyromancer, then two Djinnis that copy Reincarnate (and a KJ to slow the action down).
  • We can test if Summon Resolution Step runs before or after a Forced Death Phase. Have an enemy Deathlord that dies to a Wild Pyromancer, then two Djinnis that copy Reincarnate, and the Deathlord summons... hmm, how about Garrison Commander refreshing your Hero Power? That works for me.

Summon a 12-drop with Prep Summoning Stone[edit source]

for a video: ET reduce summoning stone to 0 and prep to -5, then kill ET and draw a sprint. have your opponent loatheb you. prep, summoning stone, sprint. clockwork/mountain will appear.

Spectate the wrong player[edit source]

"Was waiting for a friend to find a match while spectating, and canceled spectator mode at the last second. But It still sent me to spectator mode... but on the other side of the board."

Stuff culinko found[edit source]

EDIT: Logs:

1) Cone of Cold in the hand can damage minions in play

[09:14] <culinko> he played cone on my minion (i think jormungar)
[09:14] <culinko> my board was jormungar, ambusher on 1hp, explo sheep
[09:14] <culinko> jugglers sucked as usual, so only hit my ambusher
[09:15] <culinko> jormungar went to hand
[09:15] <culinko> and then sheep got frozen with the cone and died

1a) Do you think Argus also works, just that we never did the setup 'correctly'?

2) Shadowflame in the Hand instantly discards

[09:08] <culinko> Patashu: i recently tested shadowflame in other zones with SimFri and results are interesting
[09:09] <culinko> so of course when you use it on buffed minion, its original attack value is used for the damage
[09:09] <culinko> and it still does damage to the board
[09:09] <culinko> for both cases
[09:09] <culinko> and what is interesting
[09:09] <culinko> is that if you test the hand zone
[09:09] <culinko> the card will be discarded from your hand :P

EDIT: It also doesn't trigger Tiny Knight of Evil!

Tested in Patch (2015-12-04): <culinko> that tiny knight of evil doesn't trigger off destroyed violet teacher that has been shadowflamed in hand ->

2a) What we know about destroy/discard:

  • Destroy effect on an in-play minion sets TO_BE_DESTROYED. Minion is killed and sent to graveyard/Death Event created next Death Creation Step
  • Full zone = instant removal instantly kills and sends to graveyard for bounce play->hand, steal play->play (including in-place). Death Event is resolved next Death Phase
  • Destroy effect on a weapon instantly kills and sends to graveyard. Death Event is resolved NOW
  • Destroy effect on a card apparently instantly kills and sends to graveyard! (No Death Event AFAIK)
  • Destroy effect on Lord Jaraxxus the Hero (Sacrificial Pact, Sacred Trial) instantly kills and sends to graveyard
    • Even if Lord Jaraxxus the Hero is in SETASIDE (culinko's Sacrificial Pact test)!
  • Destroy effect on a minion in setaside is ?? (did culinko test this before Malorne was changed? I don't think we can even test it anymore)
  • Destroy effect on a minion in deck is ?? (instantly kills and sends to graveyard, no Death Event?)
  • Destroy effect on a secret in the secret zone instantly kills and sends to graveyard (same as if it got triggered)

3) Malorne now goes to Deck instead of Setaside!

[09:15] <culinko> i tried to recycle malorne from setaside
[09:15] <culinko> and didn't have 2 copies of him in the deck
[09:16] <culinko> so i researched more
[09:16] <culinko> and found out he is no more in setaside now
[09:16] <culinko> he just goes into deck as same id

3a) Malorne, Anub'arak, The Skeleton Knight vs added Deathrattles

  • Apparently Malorne + added DR still doesn't work. So that means that DRs don't work in the deck zone or setaside zone, only in play/graveyard.
  • Anub'arak/The Skeleton Knight works with added DRs. (The animation is funny, though). So DRs DO work in the hand zone.

EDIT: just adding this so I have it somewhere lol powershot on minion that dies and goes to the graveyard before the Spell Text Phase

the weirdest quest bug[edit source]

Finish 'Beat Down' after crafting Chillmaw?

DicePower's test ideas[edit source]

very technical!

15 to arbitrarily many different Hero Powers in 1 turn[edit source]

WARNING: TAS levels of luck required.

Joust bug with over 60 cards[edit source]

only possible in this specific brawl so... lol

Anub'ar Ambusher vs combat[edit source]

Hasn't been tested in a very long time. If the attacker, defender or both are bounced into hand by Anub'ar Ambusher before attack, does combat cancel or not, is there any visual glitch or is it fine, and what does the log look like?

Chieftain Scarvash priority?[edit source]

Plays Kirin Tor Mage, Secret still costs 2 instead of 0

Messing with Pre-Summon Reaction Bug[edit source]

[12:02] <PattuX> Patashu: Does Hobgoblin trigger on Faceless targeting Murloc Tidecaller, due to Pre-summon reaction bug?

(also have a questing adventurer, illidan or whatever to help determine timing)

EDIT: No. 20:08:56 PattuX Patashu: Hobgoblin does not afftect a Faceless copying a 1/2 Tidecaller

Elise animation bug[edit source]

two reports:

elise possible client crash[edit source]

Why was Malorne's Attack 81[edit source]

From [Hearthstone Science] Malorne Madness! (Cast Spells at your Deck) ( ):

tl;dr We have evidence that there are no unknown Aura Update (Health/Attack) Steps we don't already account for - and the conditional ones that we know of only run when some condition is satisfied. In addition, we can re-use this test to look for previously unknown Aura Update (Health/Attack) steps in combat and ending your turn.

EDIT: DicePower is interested in knowing if the subject of a sequence is removed early (Counterspell/death), if further Phases still have their aura updates. And we can test using this!

EDIT 2: DicePower notes

[14:16] <DicePower> I guess it's no longer accurate to say "However, when you play a minion, after the After Play Phase and before the After Summon Phase, only the following steps run: Aura Update (Health/Attack) Aura Update (Other)"
[14:16] <DicePower> The Aura Update (Health/Attack) still runs twice.

I noted

[14:19] <Patashu> DicePower: or it's possible that there really IS only one step, and so I should have added up to only 22. which would mean 2 update steps are unaccounted for?

EDIT 3: discovered by Xinhuan, if you Brann + faceless something with an attack or health buff, it applies and the change is visible every aura update (health/attack) for the copy in the setaside zone. So now this is much more convenient to test :)

doomsayer AI bug[edit source]

needs testing

EDIT: supposedly due to the same bug?

Ideas from Malorne Madness[edit source]

  • Play the minion with Shadow Madness in the hand. Does it lack Charge (reset to 0 because it was granted when SM was cast) or have Charge (refreshed to 1 because the attached Enchantment is constantly applying Charge)?
  • After putting Malorne on the top of your deck (Entomb, Mind Control, Morph), see what things keep Malorne on top and what things shuffle the deck:
    • Gang Up, Recycle, Beneath the Grounds, Ancient Shade, Iron Juggernaut
    • Malorne, Entomb
    • Fel Reaver mills the top 3 cards, so always mills Malorne?
    • Jousts shuffle the deck? If not, King's Elekk winning a joust shuffles the deck?
    • Deck thinning (Captain's Parrot, Mad Scientist, Sense Demons)
  • If Malorne with Velen's Chosen is milled from your deck (such as by Fel Reaver), is Velen's Chosen detached and therefore you lose the Spell Damage +1?

Decks Assemble! brawl isn't random?[edit source]

"Yeah. You started with a 7 card deck, so if you went first, the first card you played would always be the last card in your second hand. (It would usually be a tarnished coin, unless you drafted a better one-drop than the 1/1 chicken) I didn't do enough testing to know how it handled the cards it took from your hand. It felt like it grabbed them from right to left, (the reverse order they were drawn in) and then put them on the bottom, but it could have been randomized. (They did go on the bottom after played cards, though. That much I was able to confirm.) Another neat thing I learned from this: Joust looks at the bottom-most card of your deck, and then puts it into a random spot in your deck. (A Joust minion will always find itself when played when played in this brawl) Plus: Cards with a shuffle effect actually do shuffle your deck. (And they do it after the copy is placed on the bottom. Forgotten Torch OP!)?"


[13:43] <Xinhuan> its random as far as i could tell Patashu

[13:43] <Xinhuan> but Fisker played brawl a lot more than any of us, he probably can answer it better

jleclanche's Misdirection-Mogor theory[edit source]

jleclanche thinks that if Misdirection changes the target to a friendly minion, Mogors can't trigger anymore because they try to reassign the defender amongst the same controller, but if the controller is friendly then none of the targets are valid.

So we could test to see if the Misdirection/Mogor bug is still in 4.1.

joust vs forced death phase[edit source]

jleclanche wants to know if there's a forced death phase after a joust.

[13:31] <Patashu> jleclanche: play explosive sheep, TSK, explosive sheep. I play a haunted creeper and flamestrike
[13:31] <Patashu> if TSK causes an extra death phase, then my spectral spiders will die
[13:31] <Patashu> if not they live

we can also test if auras update after a joust: play stormwind champion (injured to 1 health), tsk (injured to 1 health), explosive sheep, anything (uninjured, 4+ health_. kill the first 3 minions with a CoC. we can then tell if the uninjured minion loses aura or takes damage first.

EDIT: the results are in! no forced death phase.

[16:04] <jleclanche> Patashu: so i played a creeper before, one after - both of them died at the same time, all the tokens were up
[16:04] <jleclanche> so joust confirmed not to trigger deaths

Feign Death vs Anub'ar Ambusher[edit source]

(We know that Deathrattles can resolve in the Hand zone - culinko tested Anub'arak with Soul of the Forest on it and it worked)

  1. You have an Anub'ar Ambusher with added Explorer's Hat. Cast Feign Death. Anub'ar bounces itself. Do you also get a hat?
  2. You have an Anub'ar Ambusher and a second Deathrattle minion (played in that order). Cast Feign Death. Anub'ar bounces the second minion. Does the second minion's Deathrattle still resolve?
  3. You have an Anub'ar Ambusher, Voidcaller and Dreadsteed (played in that order). Cast Feign Death. Anub'ar bounces the Dreadsteed. Voidcaller force plays the Dreadsteed. Does the Dreadsteed's Deathrattle still resolve?

Cone of Cold and caching[edit source]

  1. Cone of Cold your own Violet Teacher. Does the Apprentice live or die?
  1. Cone of Cold a bunch of Grim Patrons. What happens? (talk) 14:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Duplicate, queue or trigger condition[edit source]

<Patashu> play a loot hoarder than duplicate. at 9/10 cards your opponent kills it

EDIT: Trigger condition.

But we can also test if it's a queuing condition (see below).

Kill Nefarian before he transforms[edit source]

there's probably no SFX and you just win normally. the RNG is nearly impossible to get. but if you got it, it'd be AMAZING

Buccaneer vs Blingtron vs Brann[edit source]

If you have a Buccaneer (or two) and a Brann Bronzebeard in play, and play Blingtron, which weapons get buffed and how many times?

EDIT: Tested with Arathi Weaponsmith, both axes get Buccaneer buffs, then the Death's Bite you equipped over triggers. And notably it's after an Aura Update (Health/Attack), meaning it's likely the Death's Bite DR is during the Summon Resolution Step!

Still need to test with Blingtron to see who gets their weapon first, for example.

Timing of weapon Destruction[edit source]

1) Player A has Death's Bite and Tirion (played 1st). Player B has Haunted Creeper (played 2nd). Tirion is damaged to 1 Health. The two minions engage in combat and die simultaneously.

In the following Death Phase, Tirion's DR will resolve before Haunted Creeper's DR, and it will equip over the Death's Bite. Will the Death's Bite DR resolve before or after the Haunted Creeper DR?

2) Same as the above test, but use a Skeletal Smith (Naxxramams boss-only minion that reads 'destroy your Opponent's weapon') instead of a Tirion. You have the Death's Bite and the Haunted Creeper (played 2nd). Can use Whirlwind or Revenge so everything dies the same turn you play the Haunted Creeper, if it helps. (This test will see if equipping over a weapon and destroying a weapon have the same DR timing or not.)

(NOTE: 1 and 2 aren't strictly necessary, because Harrison Jones + Death's Bite + Brann is already waiting until the end of the Battlecry Phase to resolve the DR.)

3) Do 1) again, but the Haunted Creeper owner has a Stormwind Champion as well - just to see if the Spectral Spiders get +1/+1 or the Death's Bite DR resolves first.

4) Do 1) again, but the Haunted Creeper owner is the Dominant Player, plays Commanding Shout, THEN engages in combat. That way, if Commanding Shout updates on the Spectral Spiders before the Death's Bite DR activates (due to dominant player ordering), weapon destruction is processed in the Summoning Resolution Step.

5) With a Death's Bite equipped, cast Reincarnate on your own Tirion Fordring. Does the new Tirion get hurt by the Death's Bite DR or not?

6) With a Charged Hammer equipped, play Brann Bronzebeard and Lord Jaraxxus. Does the final Jaraxxus have Lightning Jolt? (NOTE: This should work the same as Harrison Jones + Death's Bite + Brann interaction)

Animated Armor: Aura that sets a Trigger?[edit source]

jleclanche thinks Animated Armor could be an aura that sets HEAVILY_ARMORED on your hero (probably at Aura Update (Other) timing. When the tag is set, Animated Armor will trigger and reduce damage.

This is easy to test: Have a Deathlord (played first) and an Abomination die simultaneously, and the Deathlord pull an Animated Armor. If it really is an aura, your Hero will take 2 damage instead of 1 (because auras won't have updated yet).

EDIT: Tested, it's not an Aura

Murloc Tidecaller, Faceless Manipulator, Brann Bronzebeard[edit source]

just for fun - if you play brann, tidecaller and faceless the tidecaller, what happens? (does the tidecaller trigger for the first, second or both transforms, and what does your copy end up as?)

EDIT: Nothing special, except that we get a minion in SETASIDE with an Attack Enchantment attached, so it goes up forever every Aura Update (Health/Attack) lol

Death Creation Step after Targeting Phase[edit source]

there might not be any, see and note the timing of the hero's death scream

Mekgineer bug?[edit source]

Cleave, Snowballs[edit source]

  1. If you Cleave two enemies with on-damage triggers (like an acolyte and a mech-bear cat), are they hit in the order they were played in, or randomly?
  2. If you use Hardpacked Snowballs on three enemies with Deathrattles and your opponent's hand is full, are they attempted to be returned in play order or randomly, and are their Death Events resolved in play order or death order?

Silence vs Auras[edit source]

  1. A 1/1 is buffed to 2/2 by Stormwind Champion, then is damaged for 1. When silenced, does it stay at 1 or return to 2 current Health?
  2. A 1/1 is buffed to 2/2 by Stormwind Champion, then is damaged for 1, then is Earth Shocked. Does it live or die?

Bonus tests:

  1. What happens when you silence a Beast given Charge by Tundra Rhino & +1 Attack by Warsong Commander? (Is there any 'bounce'?)
  2. Using Earth Shock on a Wrath of Air Totem does 1 damage, not 2 (Trump has done this on a video).

EDIT: 1 and 2 done, the Aura effects don't silence off:

Divine Shield vs Immune[edit source]

If a Divine Shield, Immune minion takes damage, does the Divine Shield pop?

It's pretty likely it doesn't, but no one actually knows for sure yet...

EDIT: If The Steel Sentinel (Heroic) has a Divine Shield minion and you deal 2 damage to it, does The Steel Sentinel's Hero Power trigger first to reduce it to 1, or after (therefore doing nothing, since it's already 0)?

Further Cursed Blade Tests[edit source]

Besides Cursed Blade vs Animated Armor/Bolf Ramshield, I'd like to see:

  1. Cursed Blade equipped, Tirion then Abomination simultaneously die
  2. Cursed Blade equipped, Harrisoned and Harrison draws Flame Leviathan (or Harrison draws Sea Reaver hits Axe Flinger)
  3. Have Death's Bite, equip Cursed Blade, which hits an enemy Axe Flinger

EDIT: Added test 3, updated test 2

EDIT 2: Tested 3. Cursed Blade is in effect for the Death's Bite DR/Axe Flinger:

Source of Power Word: Glory Damage[edit source]

  1. Does Power Word: Glory uses its CONTROLLER or its minion's CONTROLLER to decide where to look for Auchenai Soulpriest?
  2. If a Water Elemental with Power Word: Glory attached attacks, and the Power Word: Glory does damage to a Hero due to Auchenai Soulpriest, does that Hero become Frozen?
  3. Same test as above but with Mistress of Pain.

EDIT: All tested with Mistress of Pain and Auchenai Soulpriest:

No need to test Water Elemental as well, so this is done.

Colliseum Manager bug[edit source]

cursed blade vs mistress[edit source]

Deals 2 over and over. How do we reconcile this with cursed blade vs predamage triggers? talk to jleclanche and Xinhuan when I get home...

Edit: why does it stop at -4 instead of -6??

Edit 2: if mistress attacks an enemy with cursed blade, does your hero heal for 1 or 2?

animated armor, mortally wounded hero[edit source]

Apparently AA won't trigger if your hero is mortally wounded. Likely TSS boss works the same way...

EDIT: AA does trigger if your hero is mortally wounded.

lightwell vs mortally wounded[edit source]

In the Mechazod brawl, Lightwell seems to ignore mortally wounded targets. Is it true outside of Brawl? For example test using Auchenai Soulpriest, Lightwell and one damaged friendly Character that will be mortally wounded by the first Lightwell.

EDIT: Ignores mortally wounded.

Brann and Aura Update (Other)[edit source]

  1. Does Aura Update (Other) run between the two Battlecries? Unfortunately I can only think of visual tests, such as Recombobulator/Faceless on Mal'Ganis. The fact that Brann being transformed by the first Battlecry of Tinkmaster Overspark doesn't prevent the second Battlecry seems to indicate it doesn't run, but it could be a trick (the second Battlecry Event is already queued, or whatever).

EDIT: A weird oddity when I tested with Recombobulator on Mal'Ganis. May or may not mean anything.

Misdirection, Clumsy vs Mortally Wounded[edit source]

  1. We know that if the attacker is mortally wounded, Misdirection doesn't trigger. But what if all other possible Characters are mortally wounded? For example, attack with your Hero the enemy Hero, you with one 1-2 Health minion in play, and your opponent has Explosive Trap/Misdirection. (Show the other order too.)
  2. Same test but with Clumsy - attack the enemy Hero, Explosive Trap triggers Grim Patron triggers Knife Juggler mortally wounds the one remaining minion. Can the clumsy minion redirect?

EDIT: Tested with Misdirection, it won't trigger:

Reliquary Seeker not in play Battlecry[edit source]

jleclanche wants to know if the Reliquary Seeker Battlecry condition is coded as '6 other minions in play', '6+ other minions in play' or '7 minions in play'.

setup for 7 minions in play, reliquary in hand:

your board: stormwind champion (1 health), illidan (1 health), unearthed raptor (having four haunted creeper DRs using brann/shadowstep) (1 health), knife juggler (1 health), anub'ar ambusher (1 health, played before unearthed raptor)

their board: 1 unstable ghoul (1 health)

play reliquary seeker. illidan triggers KJ hits a ghoul kills everything except reliquary, which is bounced by the anub'ar ambusher, then seven spectral spiders appear.

setup for 6 minions in play, reliquary in hand:

same, except use the glitch to get haunted creeper + a single token minion (e.g. harvest golem) DR on a single raptor, then clone it using brann so that one unearthed raptor will spawn exactly 6 minions.

Both of these are 50% chances and dumb to setup. So have fun!

EDIT: DicePower notes that if you don't care about the video not capturing what happens (just look at the log), we can let the reliquary die. This lets us remove the anub'ar and the stormwind, letting us put three KJs in. We can also have extra ghouls if we're careful to make sure they're played before the raptor (so they don't kill the raptor summoned tokens). Or instead of extra KJs, just have three haunted creepers or whatever. You can also use Explosive Sheep instead of Unstable Ghoul, and etc

EDIT 2: Then he suggests Mirror Entity. Ok, so now it's Mage vs Warlock. What's the setup now?

6 minions:

  • Ally: Creeper, Creeper, Creeper, Illidan 1-2 Health, KJ
  • Enemy: 2-7 Explosive Sheep (all played before the Creepers), Mirror Entity

7 minions:

  • Ally: Baron Rivendare 3+ Health, Creeper, Creeper, Illidan 1-2 Health, KJ
  • Enemy: 2-7 Explosive Sheep (all played before the Creepers), Mirror Entity

(use Faceless for extra creepers and explosive sheep)

EDIT 3: Tested, and the true Battlecry condition is '7 minions in play'.

Minion stuck floating animation hang[edit source]

Hang with an enemy minion preparing to attack

EDIT: Another!

EDIT 2: Another

12 Cards in Hand[edit source]

Go for World Record! Setups listed from least to most likely.

(note that the Anub'araks/TSKs will need to have their Attack reduced to 3 or less, such as with Inner Fire or Confuse/Crazed Alchemist, so they can be stolen)

Anub'arak version (least likely):

You: Priest in Shadowform
Them: Rogue
Your board: Violet Teacher, Knife Juggler, a 4/3 (or less Health is ok)
Their board: Anub'arak 1 (1 Health), Anub'arak 2 (4 Health)
Your hand: Shadow Madness, Shadow Madness, Violet Teacher*2, Knife Juggler, Coldlight Oracle (and a way to play them all in one turn e.g. ET reduction)
Their hand: 9/10 cards
Cast Shadow Madness on Anub'arak 1. VT+KJ kills it first (1/3 chance). It bounces to their hand. You SM it from their hand into yours.
Mind Spike the 1/1 token. Trade your Knife Juggler into Anub'arak 2. Trade your 4/4 into the Nerubian. Play two more VTs and your other Knife Juggler. (your board is now VT*3 KJ*1).
Cast Shadow Madness on Anub'arak 2. VT*3+KJ kills it first (7/8 chance). It bounces to their hand. You SM it from their hand into yours.
Play Coldlight Oracle so they have 10/10 cards in hand.
End turn. Both SM in hand minions go to their hand, bypassing the normal 10 card limit, allowing you to get a 12 card hand.
Total RNG requirement: 7/24 (29.166%) chance
If you don't want to make extra VTs beyond 2, the setup is otherwise the same, you don't need to Mind Spike the 1/1 token anymore (so being in Shadowform also not required) and the RNG requirement is 1/4 (25%).

Anub'arak version, PattuX variant:

You: Priest (Shadowform)
Opponent: Rogue

Your hand: 2*Shadow Madness, Excavated Evil, Coldlight Oracle + Mana to play them and HP in one turn (E.T.)
Your Board: 4*KJ, VT, Wisp
His hand: 9/10
His board: 2*Anub'Arak, 8/1 and 8/4
Rogue has some HP left (10 should be fine)

Maths bit:
Shadow Madness the 8/1, it dies with ~80% chance.
Other 3 Juggles:
Anub'Arak#2 is now...
Case I: 8/4: Attack with Wisp and Ping Anub
Case II: 8/3: Ping Anub. Suicide Wisp into Nerubian.
Case III: 8/2: Attack with Wisp.
Case IV: 8/1: Suicide Wisp into Nerubian.

Shadow Madness second Anub. Again ~80%.
Cast Excavated Evil.
Play Coldlight Oracle.

Overall chance: ~65%

The Skeleton Knight version (this setup doesn't work because the second SM won't be able to steal the 8 attack enemy. Maybe it is salvageable somehow?):

Your hero: Priest
Their hero: Shaman
Your board: Violet Teacher, Knife Juggler*4, any 3 attack minion
Their board: The Skeleton Knight (1 Health, with Ancestral Spirit cast)
(Note: They must ALWAYS win Jousts. Make sure they have only big minions left in their deck and you don't have any.)
Your hand: Shadow Madness*2, Coldlight Oracle (and a way to play them all in one turn, e.g. ET reduction)
Their hand: 9/10 cards
Cast Shadow Madness on The Skeleton Knight. VT+KJ*4 kills it first (15/16 chance). It bounces to their hand. You SM it from their hand into yours.
Trade your 3 attack minion into the second TSK (such that the 3 attack minion dies).
Cast Shadow Madness on TSK 2. VT+KJ*4 kills it first (15/16 chance). It bounces to their hand. You SM it from their hand into yours.
Play Coldlight Oracle so they have 10/10 cards in hand.
End turn. Both SM in hand minions go to their hand, bypassing the normal 10 card limit, allowing you to get a 12 card hand.
Total RNG requirement: 87.89%

EDIT: 20 cards in hand hypothetical setup

EDIT 2: Revised by PattuX

EDIT 3: More revisions by Eddetekor from youtube

Graveyard stealing before Death Event resolution[edit source]

When a minion dies, their Death Event is resolved for the controller the minion died for. But what if you do this:

Your board is at 5/7 minions, including Illidan and Brann. Play Cabal targeting an enemy DR minion (both natural and added DRs are interesting here). The first Battlecry kills (Full Zone Instant Removal) the target. The second Battlecry steals it in the graveyard. Then we resolve the Death Event.

Who gets the card draw from Loot Hoarder, who gets the hat from Explorer's Hat, does Ancestral Spirit work (and for both of those does it matter who cast the Hat/Spirit), does haunted Creeper work, etc

Also, who's KT will resurrect the minion? And who's hand does Anub'arak jump into? How does TSK joust work?


DicePower: Have we even tested the Split Queue with Feign Death? Player A (Secondary Player) plays Clockwork Gnome. Player B (Dominant Player) plays Explorer's hat on it. Player A plays Feign Death.

EDIT 2: Now we have! Looks like it goes in the minion's side of the Split Queue for both Feign Death and dying.

Giants vs Naga Sea Witch[edit source]

  1. Have Giant A in your hand. Draw Naga Sea Witch. Draw Giant B. Play Naga Sea Witch. Do both Giants cost 5 mana?
  2. Update Giant costs. Do they still cost 5 mana?
  3. Draw Giant C. Does it cost 5 mana or a different amount?
  4. Play and bounce a Giant that costs 5 mana. Does it cost 5 mana or a different amount?
  5. Play and bounce a Giant that DOESN'T cost 5 mana. Does it cost 5 mana or a different amount?
  6. Play and bounce Naga Sea Witch after all of this. What happens?

Also get ET/Naga/ET sandwich and Mechwarper/Naga/Mechwarper (or something similar) sandwich.

NOTE: Volcanic Lumberer/Volcanic Drake/Solemn Vigil/Dragon's Breath also count as 'Giants' for the purposes of this test.

EDIT: PattuX did some testing on this, and it seems that each Entity has a timestamp which is updated when generated and played (and at no other time). So play Naga/Aviana places the aura later than all giants/volcanic minions, but if you THEN play and bounce a giant/volcanic minion, the discount now comes after Naga/Aviana.

Is Aura Update (Health/Attack) also Aura Update (Other)[edit source]

In the same Death Phase, summon Mal'Ganis and a beast. The beast triggers Starving Buzzard draws Flame Leviathan (or Sea Reaver + Axe Flinger) in the following Summon Resolution Step. In the intermediate Aura Update (Health/Attack), did we become Immune due to Mal'Ganis? If so, it's more appropriate to call the step Aura Update (All)! Hmm...

Does Silencing an Aura Emitter remove the Aura Effect immediately[edit source]

Play Mass Dispel, silencing a Stormwind Champion + enemy minions and drawing a Flame Leviathan OR silencing a Murloc Warleader while you have Murlocs too and drawing a Sea Reaver. Does the Aura effect leave before or after the minions are damaged?

Far Sight vs Naga Sea Witch[edit source]

far sight seems to have a really early priority? quite weird. supposedly also call pet.

but are they earlier, later or same as summoning portal?

EDIT: Call Pet, too. Shadowfiend reduces the cost to 4 tho. Summoning Portal still applies before Far Sight/Call Pet, no matter what the play order was. --PattuX (talk) 23:43, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Duplicate Queuing Condition[edit source]

If Duplicate has a Queuing condition of 'your hand is not full', Voidcaller Duplicate (dying while your hand is at 10/10) pulling a demon won't trigger and put a Voidcaller in your hand

Majordomo mid-attack hang[edit source]

Is it reproducible? Who knows!

EDIT: We reproduced it

Miniature Warfare tests[edit source]

log of a short match:

[10:24] <CardBot> (1/1) Miniature [TB_Mini_1e][Tavern Brawl][Neutral Enchantment]: Mini-sized, set to 1/1

[10:23] <culinko> tag=CANT_BE_DISPELLED value=1

  1. All minions starting in your deck are 1/1 costing 1 in your hand. But what about minions bounced to your hand and generated in your hand. When do they become 1/1s, or are they just not? will they cost 1? How does it interact with Tracking?
  2. Minions that are summoned seem to become 1/1s in the following Summon Resolution Step: but only if they weren't already 1/1s (e.g. Hobgoblin works: ). This also indicates there's no SRS step between Targeting Phase and Spell Text Phase (which makes sense). It also indicates that self-transformers will not become 1/1s until the Special Summon Resolution Step, and that spell transformed minions don't become 1/1s but all Battlecry related transformed minions do. Can demonstrate with Snipe, Sword of Justice, etc. Another proof: [10:46] <hsimbot> (theAprel) Whoa in TB just played SH Regent then Mukla's Champion(in that order). The 1/1 spawned first and even received the banana animation, but was still a 1/1 after the sequence
  3. Also, mortally wounding minions in the same Phase they're summoned with (e.g. Grim Patron + Bouncing Blade) should save them from dying, since they become 1/1s before the following Death Creation Step.
  4. The 1/1 effect isn't silence-able (see above).
  5. I bet Faceless has some janky bugs:
  6. If you have a Stormwind Champion out and summon stuff, do they become +1/+1 then 1/1 then 2/2 all visually due to the sandwiched Aura Update (Health/Attack) Steps?
  7. Looks like enemy minions show their base stats briefly and after the On Play Phase bounce to being 1/1s. But Bolvar/The Mistcaller effected enemy minions don't do it, right? Wonder why the difference. Oh, actually it happens for friendly minions too? Weird. But Hobgoblin knows they're meant to be 1/1s and buffs them, so idk. Might just be a visual bug.
  8. We should test Brawl Rule SRS trigger vs Weapon Update Step (death's bite equipped over in the same Phase minions are summoned, etc).
  9. We should test force play from hand and force play from deck.
  10. What happens if you play Polymorph: Boar, bounce the Boar to your hand, and replay it?
  11. Copy effects (Echoing Ooze, Faceless Manipulator, Mirror Entity) copy the Miniature Enchantment, so the following SRS they don't get re-applied.

Double Summon Event[edit source]

In the same Death Phase, you force play (Voidcaller) a Voidcaller, bounce it back to the hand (Anub'ar Ambusher) and force play it again (Voidcaller). Does a friendly Undertaker trigger once or twice?

Use Faceless to get third Voidcaller, steal/copy enemy Anub'ar somehow, and maybe have two Undertakers in the deck + an enemy Deathlord dies if you want to remove the Anub'ar RNG.

The follow-up test is then - do we use the timestamp of the Summon Event being created, or the minion's timestamp, when we queue and resolve Summon Events in the Summon Resolution Step? For example, Death Phases use the timestamp of the minion, no matter what order the Death Events are created in. (EDIT: DicePower notes these are slightly different: [13:41] <DicePower> This question could still be asked about Death Phases as well, if we could think of a setup. [13:42] <DicePower> I'm assuming that the minion's timestamp is used, the question is when is the timestamp referenced by the Event ordering code.)

To test this, you'd need to force play two Voidcallers, bounce the first force played one, and then force play it again. Then you need an SRS trigger that alters the summoned minion, like Maloriak or Miniature Warfare, and you'd look at the ordering.

Alternatively, your enemy could also have Voidcallers die and force play Voidcallers, and they also have Undertaker. ABA sandwich and see what happens.

Brann + Vol'jin + Graveyard[edit source]

<ZeroRin> question: got a report saying vol'jin with bronzebeard target a 3 health minion in graveyard made voljin 3 health then 0 and die

<ZeroRin> don't know how to explain XD

Sap Hang[edit source]

"If you try to return a durid of the flame (2/5 form) it will idle the game in a state where you can play cards but when you end your turn the other player cannot play any cards. Hopes this gets fixed (found by ReachRevo).

ScreenShot- "

(pretty sure we reproduced this)

Mark of the Wild hang[edit source]

no idea if reproducible or not lol

Jeeves hang[edit source]

no idea if reproducible or not

log is at the bottom

Stealing vs timestamps[edit source]

Adys pointed out we don't have a video proving stealing a minion does not update its timestamp (to be the new newest minion). We should fix that.

EDIT: Now we do!

Is the SRS before a Forced Death Phase an SSRS?[edit source]

[16:26] <DicePower> So have Poultryizer trigger first, hope it doesn't hit anything you need, then Mimiron's Head triggers. If it's a Special Summon Resolution Step before Forced Death Phases, the Buzzard should trigger.

Lantern of Power/Reno hang[edit source]

"What happened to me was that I had a Naga out in the field while Reno and Lantern of Power were in my hand. I was low on HP so I tossed Reno out and buffed Naga with Lantern of Power at the same time. The Reno's circle of light went out and then clashed with Lantern of Power's and they just sort of hung in the air. I could click around, but my client was frozen. I restarted the client but the game was already registered as a loss. Just wanted to give you a heads up, though this situation is not likely to ever be seen in a formal setting (tournaments etc)."

Cards in hand bugs - Decks Assemble Brawl[edit source]

Gap in hand becomes permanent?

Do Self-Buffs update immediately[edit source]

Play a Floating Watcher. Buff it to 6/6 and damage it down to 2 current Health. On your turn, an enemy Abomination and Explosive Sheep (in that order) die simultaneously. Abom damages Floating Watcher to 0 and triggers it to self-buff once (so if it updated immediately it's at 2 current Health). Explosive Sheep is currently bugged to ignore mortally wounded minions, so whether it hits or doesn't hit the Floating Watcher will determine if self-buff increases update immediately or not.


[11:00] <Patashu> PattuX: do you think that whenever a new enchantment is attached, there might be an Aura Update (Health/Attack) in general, or does it only update Enchantments without adding/removing Aura related Enchantments?
[11:01] <Patashu> have a stormwind champion and explosive sheep die simultaneously. before the explosive sheep dies, a flesheating ghoul triggers. if the flesheating ghoul attaching a buff to itself causes Aura Update (Health/Attack) without any visual effect, then the explosive sheep will deal 2 not 1 damage
[11:01] <Patashu> you can test twice, with ghoul having no buffs and having some buffs, for example, and also test anubisath sentinel etc


Do the floating watcher, abomination, explosive sheep test again but with an entity being created in that Death Phase, to see if the self buff updates states immediately or at the next aura update. Also, the tests involving Stormwind Champion and Flesheating Ghoul were left out.

Current theory: Aura Update A/H only runs when an entity enters or leaves play or is silenced since the last time it ran. Easy way to test is to have a Health/Attack Enchantment attached to something outside of Play, and perform various different actions and see when it runs and when it doesn't.

Is there any other context where we can trick the missing step into mattering? For example, 6/6 floating watcher attacks enemy hero, triggers PWG, damages friendly hero due to friendly auchenai soulpriest, is or is not 8 attack when it deals damage. No entities were created or moved...

Missing hero animation bug[edit source]


Bane of Doom vs Ice Block[edit source]

[13:23] <Patashu> PattuX, DicePower, jleclanche, NightKev, Xinhuan: anyone know what happens if you Bane of Doom your opponent's 2 Health Hero (with Ice Block up)? do you summon a random friendly demon? how about if, instead, the damage is diverted to a Bolf that dies?

Misc visual bugs[edit source]

Repro for tilted minion bug?[edit source]

"Playing desktop, in an Arena match against a player called DLH, I Sapped his Argent squire enchanted with an Explorer's hat. The moment the minion was returning to his hand, I hovered the cursor over the card. The back of the card froze over his hero and the sound of card returning was stuck as well, for the whole match for me. In the following turn, the player cast Argent Squire again, which was tilted on the board for as long it was alive. The sound also remained there until it was killed. "

Kezan Mystic hang[edit source]

mobile only? no idea how this is possible

Vaporize hang[edit source]

EDIT: Related to

EDIT: another report

EDIT: a 'last spell kill' report that may or may not have secrets, asking for more info:

Shadow Madness hang[edit source]


Mobile bug 'can't target hero'[edit source]

Discover/Mirror Entity hang[edit source]

Brawl stuff that needs testing[edit source]

Besides crashes/hangs reports which are listed above:

1) Which fates are implemented as Auras, and which are implemented as SRS triggers? Which apply unsilencable Enchantments (vs silencable)? Are they replaced if your Hero is replaced? Are they all double-counted by copy effects (Mirror Entity, etc)? Do they count for Lil' Exorcist, Scarlet Purifier, Undertaker, etc? echoing ooze/fate DR interaction

interestingly, minions transformed by spell effects DO have the deathrattle afterwards:

so it's not an SRS trigger. the next thing to test is the timing - it could be a presummon trigger or a new kind of trigger (like SRS but also for spell transformed minions). two ways to find out:

<Patashu> oh, I just realized

<Patashu> it could be a presummon trigger

<Patashu> and we can prove it too

<Patashu> or can we, hmm

<Patashu> we need a minion to enter play and die before the outermost Phase resolves, and there needs to be room in your hand

<Patashu> oh, I know

<Patashu> deathlord DR, sylvanas DR placed in that order, full board, cast feign death

<Patashu> or

<Patashu> you can have an on play phase trigger out and play a minion, and see if the DR appears before or after the on play phase

2) Can the 'card in your hand costs 0' fate pick a card that currently costs 0?

3) Specific timing with which you're presented your next fate?

4) How does the transform all minions into murlocs fate work w/r/t timing (Knife Juggler, Murloc Tidehunter, etc)?

5) Test windfury and taunt/charge dire fates in combination with transform, summon, etc effects. taunt+charge doesn't work on summoned minions

6) note that the murloc dire fate re-applies banana DRs after:

7) jleclanche Patashu: it's possible it's coded like this: put 6 cards in setaside, choose 4 at random for the pick jleclanche Patashu: this would mean if we put more shit in setaside when the 2nd one triggers, bad shit happen <culinko> what about stuff like poultryizer that transforms stuff at start of the turn


culinko jleclanche: we tested stealing ethereal conjurer's discover battlecry and no weird things happened

culinko other than when i clicked the discover card of my choosing, the rope fake disappeared

culinko so i thought i got time, but few seconds after that my turn ended and it autopicked the first fate

jleclanche culinko: yeah i figured since you mentioned choose ones

jleclanche they'd bug out if this were the cased

8) what happens if you go below 20 health+armor and back up before your next turn starts? even if it's by fake armor - no fate!

<jleclanche> Patashu culinko: the animation "bug" is interesting in this brawl when below 20 health. every damage tick causes an animation blip

<jleclanche> its very telling to how conditional triggers are implemented

Buffed in deck vs King's Elekk, Tracking[edit source]

If you buff Malorne in your deck and 'draw' him using King's Elekk/Tracking, when does the attached buff detach?

Chromaggus, on-draw triggers, nearly full hand[edit source]

If your hand is at 9/10 cards, you have Chromaggus in play and Gnomish Experimenter's Battlecry goes off, is the topdecked card considered in your hand already (so you get that card rather than the copy from Chromaggus)?

EDIT: Tested by Culinko, the topdecked card IS in your hand already. Chromaggus tries to trigger but does nothing.

What about if you draw Burrowing Mine - does a copy get put in your hand, or is the topdecked card considered in your hand already, meaning you don't get a copy (and your hand remains with an open slot)?

Gorehowl further tests[edit source]

1) do the Indestructible Gorehowl glitch, then attack a minion.

2) Do the glitch twice in a row, then attack a minion.

Forced Death Phase vs Weapon Update Step[edit source]

Using a Wild Pyromancer, a 1 Health Tirion with same controller as a Powermace, a series of Djinni and one or more mechs, cast Reincarnate and verify when the equipped over Powermace triggers.

Old Gods Science[edit source]

Giant Sand Worm + The Boogeymonster

  • What if Giant Sandworm attacks a minion, but it dies BEFORE the attack (Explosive Trap -> Explosive Sheep)?
  • What if Giant Sandworm attacks a minion, it doesn't become mortally wounded due to the attack, but becomes pending destroy due to Acidmaw? EDIT:
  • What if Giant Sandworm attacks a minion, it doesn't become mortally wounded due to the attack, but becomes mortally wounded due to summon -> KJ -> damage -> summon -> KJ -> damage? (Slam needs to be tested this way too btw)
  • What if The Boogeymonster and the defender simultaneously become mortally wounded, will The Boogeymonster buff and survive?
  • How is the ability implemented? Does it increment WINDFURY tag?
  • How does it interact with Frozen, Charge, Steal, Windfury buffs, etc



  • Set all TO_BE_DESTROYED, draw, resolve spell or Set all TO_BE_DESTROYED, Forced Death Creation Step, draw, resolve spell?

Herald Volazj

Renounce Darkness

  • How does it work if you replace your hero, if a non warlock hero gets it, if you replace your hero power with Finley before using it, if you use it twice, etc?

Spawn of N'Zoth

  • With Feign Death can it buff itself or not?

Ragnaros, Lightlord

  • Can it heal mortally wounded? (he can!)
  • Does he have a queuing condition, trigger condition, both or neither? EDIT: none! --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
  • If the answer is YES, re-test Lightwell. EDIT: Mechazod Brawl suggested, it still ignores mortally wounded. --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Hellazeal the Ascended

  • Can he convert Djinni and Yogg-Saron copied spells into healing?

Steward of Darkshire

  • Is it a Summon Resolution Step trigger or Presummon trigger (or something new)? seems SRS
  • 1 maximum Health, current Health or base Health? according to it's not current Health, but is it maximum or base Health then? can test with Herald and with Hobgoblin for both directions. EDIT: Maximum. --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Is it a queuing, trigger or both condition? (currently untestable I think)
  • Can she trigger on herself (if damaged in the same Phase)? What if you summon and damage two in the same Phase? EDIT: Test by playing Faceless on her while enemy has Redemption up (probably she can't) --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Will she trigger on stuff with a Divine Shield already? (if so, queuing or trigger or both condition?) EDIT: yes, so it's not a trigger condition. so far everything is a queueing condition, 99.9% sure this one too --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
  • contrast with Sword of Justice, Hobgoblin
  • Interaction with Faceless, Recombobulator, Pearl of the Tide EDIT: again, see second link --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Master of Evolution

  • What happens when used on a 10 drop, 12 drop or 20 drop? (apparently nothing, not even refreshing the minion)

Blood of the Ancient One

  • High priority, normal priority or low priority?
  • Does it use a Forced Death Phase (or well, whatever it will work like in Patch 5.0 heh)? --> I think it is Forced Death Phase, see . Xinhuan confirms that TO_BE_DESTROYED is set:
  • Transform or summon effect (e.g. what things will trigger: on-death triggers, SRS triggers, presummon triggers, after summon triggers)?
  • What if you have 3+? Which ones merge with which, is it order of play based or random? (matters if one is damaged, enchanted, silenced, etc) (test using Blood, Ancestral Spirit*7, Cho)
  • What are the queuing and trigger conditions? We know that there's a trigger condition of 'another Ancient Blood is in play' otherwise having 3 wouldn't work properly, but does it have any of the following conditions:
    • 'another Ancient Blood is in play' as a queuing condition? (Y'shaarj, Kel'Thuzad) EDIT: Yes, this is a condition. --PattuX (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
    • 'this Ancient Blood isn't mortally wounded' as a trigger condition? (Ragnaros, Baron Geddon)
    • 'the other Ancient Blood isn't mortally wounded' as a trigger condition? (Ragnaros, Baron Geddon)
    • 'this Ancient Blood isn't pending destroy' as a trigger condition? (Add Acidmaw)
    • 'the other Ancient Blood isn't pending destroy' as a trigger condition? (Add Acidmaw)

Y'shaarj, Rage Unbound

  • Does it have a queuing condition of 'board is not full'? (test with Shadow Madness

Yogg-Saron, Hope's End

  • Is there death processing between each spell? Aura update? SRS? EDIT: Death processing: yes.
  • Does it end early if one or both heroes are mortally wounded/destroyed following a spell? EDIT: only if mortally wounded.
  • Will he target mortally wounded minions? Pending destroy minions? Minions no longer in play? Minions newly in play? EDIT: as there are Deaths, not relevant
  • If deathrattles resolve in the middle of his Battlecry, and he's stolen mid-Battlecry, what happens? Or if he dies? Or if he's bounced to hand? Or if he's entombed/recycled? etc EDIT: he'll continue casting for new controller. If he's removed from board, he continues casting. He can't Entomb/Recycle himself.
  • culinko noticed that 'elusive' minions that are summoned (not played) gain their 'elusive' visual effect on a delay. If this is not just a visual bug, eventually we will see a report of Yogg-Saron summoning and targeting a Faerie Dragon (or similar). We can try and do it on purpose, if Yogg-Saron processes deaths after each spell, with silenced Faerie Dragons and Ancestral Spirit. Otherwise it'll be more difficult (requires ancestor's call or a forced death phase spell or something) -> -> maybe test Wee Spellstopper too?
  • If Brann dies/enters play it doesn't change whether you get the second Battlecry or not, right? EDIT: Right.


  • During what Phase or Step do you take the damage? Trigger, aura or static effect/engine rule? Can you take more damage than you currently have Health? -> looks like: engine rule, can't pay Health you don't have
  • Current mana cost or base mana cost? (can matter with preparation)
  • Interaction with forbidden spells? EDIT: No effect.
  • Does using a 0 mana spell do anything funny? EDIT: see above, no.
  • Does it get increased by Spell Damage +1 OR is it considered to come from Cho'gall OR is it considered to come from your Hero?
  • What if you play two Cho'galls then two spells?
  • How does it interact with replacing your Hero?
  • Does Summoning Stone see 0 mana or how much it would have cost?


Demented Frostcaller

  • Does it ignore frozen characters? EDIT: Yes
  • Does it ignore mortally wounded characters?
  • This is the first time we can freeze stuff mid-phase. But is that interesting at all? Not many things interact with frozen (it just prevents attacks, ends between turns, causes Ice Lance to do more damage and causes Mad Frost Mage to ignore that minion)

Mire Keeper

Shifter Zerus

  • When does it trigger? Any queuing or trigger condition?
  • Can it become Shifter Zerus? If so, what happens?
  • What happens if Shifter Zerus becomes Bolvar Fordragon?
  • What happens if Shifter Zerus has a Mana Cost Enchantment attached?
  • What happens if Shifter Zerus is bounced to your hand (either as Shifter Zerus or as a different minion)?
  • What happens if you silence Shifter Zerus in hand?
  • Test info leak, what the log looks like, etc


  • What happens if multiple C'thuns have died for you?
  • What happens if you have one dead C'thun and use Doomcaller twice?

Silithid Swarmer

  • What happens if you replace your Hero?
  • What happens if your attack is cancelled?

Twilight Geomancer

  • Is the Taunt silencable? (guessing yes)

Fandral Staghelm

  • Are aura updates, death processing or SRS done between the two effects? EDIT: it's only one conbined effect
  • With Raven Idol, at what timing is the second Discover done? (think 'Delayed Discoveries')
  • With Keeper of the Grove, you can probably damage then silence (heal out of mortally wounded) a minion.
  • With Wrath, it probably overkills Acolyte of Pain and draws a card. Starfall should too. EDIT: again only one effect.
  • With Dark Wispers, what happens if mode 2 is not selectable because your board is Wee Spellstopper, Wee Spellstopper, Fandrel Staghelm?
  • Any special interaction with Yogg?
  • What happens if Fandral Staghelm dies before the Battlecry Phase/Spell Text Phase?
  • Any interaction with the choices in Temple Escape?
  • Any interaction with Justicar upgraded Shaman Hero Power?

Thing from Below

  • What happens if you replace your Hero?
  • Does it work with totems created by transform Battlecries?
  • If a Totem is bounced and replayed, does the cost go down by 1?
  • If a Totem enters play but is bounced in the same Phase, does the cost go down by 1? How about if stolen in the same Phase?

Selfless Hero

  • Can it buff mortally wounded?

Ancient Harbinger

  • Interacts with on-draw triggers? EDIT: No, like Elekk and Tracking.

Patch 4.2 bug reports[edit source] golden animation bug mulligan bug that's probably reproducible multiple reports of Entomb missing (fix is supposedly logging out and logging in) Mac OS X collection visual bug search bar moving mobile: various android weirdness mobile: upsidedown bug not fixed tiny UI visual bug "The game you attempted to spectate may be full or already finished, or it may have been recently closed to spectators." if you spectate someone just as their game finishes, you remain on the loading screen indefinitely might be the video of the same?

similar but different:

[12:28] <culinko> when we tested stuff last time with PattuX

[12:28] <culinko> he disconnected or crashed or something

[12:29] <culinko> it said that he canceled the challenge, but i remained in the deck selection

[12:29] <culinko> i was able to click start to queue

[12:29] <culinko> and just queued forever

unreproducible disappearing brann bug[edit source]

he vanished!

Misdirection vs Water Elemental[edit source]

doesn't freeze if it hits your own hero?

EDIT: similar thing, was testing, hit myself with ice lance and wasn't frozen visually. opponent did see that as well. logs showed i was actually frozen. no screen tho :/ --PattuX (talk) 00:58, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

twisting nether, deathrattle minion iOS animation bug[edit source]

probably reproducible

Mobile - hero power unusable[edit source]

is this something we track?

mortally wounded minion hang[edit source]

Mechwarper is at negative health? So what would cause a hang like that?

EDIT: Related hang after king krush hits 4/1 yeti? ragnaros firing at end of turn

Friendly hero floating hang[edit source]

Latter is about hitting the end turn button, former is some different cause.

Add arbitrary cards to a deck bug (negative amount of cards left)[edit source]

59 card deck in-game bug[edit source]


hang with 0 signs whatsoever[edit source]


unknown hang while attacking opponent[edit source]

we know it's a hang not a disconnect b/c multiple minions are floating. but there's no bounce effects in hand or sidebar and no enemy secrets.

Djinni of Zephyrs vs Spell Damage[edit source]

Does Djinni use the current Spell Damage?

garrison commander hero power knife juggler sword of justice hang[edit source]

don't have any other reports like this one, I think

Enemy hero missing bug[edit source]

I've seen a similar version for the friendly hero, that one happens if you reconnect just as your hero is hit by damage. Not sure how you do this one yet.

EDIT: It is supposedly not connection related.

Crimson Purifier, Brann Bronzebeard, mortally wounded[edit source]

Does Crimson Purifier damage mortally wounded deathrattle minions? (test with Acolyte of Pain + Ancestral Spirit)

Competitive Spirit vs Mortally Wounded[edit source]

Play Curse of Rafaam. With a Bolf at 2 Health, play Competitive Spirit. At the start of your turn, Bolf becomes mortally wounded, then Competitive Spirit can trigger. Will it?

EDIT: Doesnt work because of quad queue, but as pending destroyed are ignored since 5.0:

print screen spam after reconnecting[edit source]

weirdest bug of all time?

Patch 5.0 bug reports[edit source]

(If something is a confirmed bug, add to hs-bugs and remove from here.)

Confirmed, unknown if bug or feature: Does this count as a bug? Steward of Darkshire is a Summon Resolution Step trigger. Unintuitive interaction with Sword of Justice and Murloc Warleader c'thun not receiving buffs if it has been morphed into by evolve (implies C'Thun catches up on old ritual buffs via Summon Resolution Step. I think Shifter Zerus as C'Thun only gains C'Thun rituals you play while he's in your hand, for example, so he also doesn't participate in the SRS and get the old buffs.) EDIT:it was created by Master of Evolution not Evolve. So either C'Thun doesn't catch up via SRS or the nature of the special SRS has changed. (Tested this and found out following: Playing C'Thun ritual buffs, then getting your 9-drop evolved either by Evolve or Master of Evolution summons vanilla 6/6 C'Thun. But if you Mind Control opponent's C'Thun and kill it with Kel'Thuzad on board, the resurrected C'Thun will have your ritual buffs attached.) if your c'thun is golden, the animation is still non-golden -

Unconfirmed: Mac: 'Patch 5.0.0 Bug: This is occurring for every single of my decks, be it Priest, Druid or whatever. Not only that, I think it is also happening for the bottom 4 cards in the list.' discover cards now wait for raven idol animation to finish before showing mire keeper sfx/gfx stuck for remainder of game What is the rule for which spells, when countered, continue sfx/vfx forever? new kind of floating card hang ANOTHER new kind of floating card hang floating card, no hang (but precursor to hang if he didn't have lethal maybe?) intense slowdown after using Princess Huhuran on Dreadsteed (couldn't reproduce) another slowdown with princess huhuran crafting a card while creating a deck will erase your current decklist (might be related just to converting deck to standard/wild) standard/wild explanation remains on screen mid match silenced 3/4 lightspawn, involved Storwmind Champion dying the 'dark' visual effect from avenging wrath stayed after opponent's ice block has been triggered (couldn't reproduce) Shifter Zerus glowing yellow as a minion that can't glow yellow rarely, visual effects of triggers will not appear (I think this is a real, but extremely rare bug. I've seen other reports with flamewaker, and we have video footage of ET flashing and not doing the animation on the Hearthstone Laboratory channel. Don't know if it's worth opening an hs-bugs issue for something unreproducible though.)

Yogg-Saron-related reports: Yogg-Saron can Bane of Doom your opponent's minion and summon a demon for them yogg'saron vs roaring torch Yogg-Saron breaking the 7 minion limit

C'Thun-related reports: PattuX's disciple/shadowstep/disciple hang (couldn't reproduce) sidebar can be outright incorrect

5.0 tests while steps are missing[edit source]

  • Silence vs Wild Pyromancer, silencing Stormwind Champion (is damage dealt first or the aura turned off and updated first? can try Mass Dispel also)
  • Is the Weapon Update Step being skipped? (Harrison Jones Death's Bite and Cursed Blade with Knife Juggler out)
  • Is Aura Update (Other) skipped? (Mind Control Mal'Ganis with a Wild Pyro, both players have Dragon Eggs and Knife Jugglers)
  • Did Gruul vs Ragnaros style interactions change at all?

EDIT: With today's hotfix the window to test this has passed. Perhaps in the future.

C'Thun vs copy[edit source]

What happens if you Faceless a silenced C'Thun?

What about if you faceless a damaged C'Thun? Aldored C'Thun? Play a damaged C'Thun (using Illidan/KJ/explosive sheep) into Mirror Entity (both when your opponent has their own ritual buffs and without)? Faceless your opponent's C'Thun (various ritual buff combinations)?

EDIT: Tested by culinko, getting a C'Thun via battlecry transformation doesn't apply your ritual buffs to it:

I assume this means no SSRS trigger for C'Thun. Mirror Entity left.

Hunter Hero getting close and personal visual bug[edit source]

What actually ignores pending destroy?[edit source]

Go to and test the whole first list (things that ignore mortally wounded) and check that they all also ignore pending destroy.

Also retest Lightwell :)

Don't forget to retest Vaporize/Misdirection, Snipe/Sacred Trial, Sacred Trial/Snipe

Tiny graphic stuck on screen[edit source]

Stealing C'Thun in hand/graveyard[edit source]

Stealing C'Thun in hand results in the stolen C'Thun receiving your ritual buffs.

Log (hand):

Screens (hand):

Log (graveyard):

EDIT: Tested by culinko, getting a C'Thun via battlecry transformation doesn't apply your ritual buffs to it:

Frozen minion in enemy hand visual glitch[edit source]

If you look at the enemy player's hand, you see a 7/7 minion with a blue glow. This minion was an Obsidian Destroyer that I had frozen and then Yogg-Saron returned to the enemy hand. Even though I knew the card was in his hand, it definitely isn't supposed to do that.

Interesting concede timing[edit source] You can concede after an attack begins but before it lands

At what times can you concede during other player actions (only at the end, or more frequently)? How about during a Yogg (He checks win/loss/draw too)?

Recurring disconnect error[edit source]

'You were reconnected to your last game. Resuming...' every time you log in for a while

EDIT: May be related: "Every time I log into Hearthstone, on both my PC and mobile, I get a message "unable to reconnect to your last game." I click "ok" and the game plays normally. No problems at all. But it keeps giving that message at every login, even though I'm not disconnecting."

EDIT 2: version with 'reconnecting to your last game' "You were reconnected to your last game. Resuming..."

Hungry Dragon Knife Juggler sidebar bug[edit source]

or not bug?

Finley animation happening twice[edit source]

after being played on the battlefield, he lifts up into a card like if he was cancelled, then plays down again immediately, THEN the discover option is shown.

weird weapon stacking report, no screenshot[edit source]

Fiery war axe with 1 durability in hand[edit source]

mobile collection every card is lorewalker cho[edit source]

similar but different with hemet added to druid cards:

red targeting arrow hang[edit source]

recipes you don't own bug[edit source]

your opponent left but came back bug[edit source]

battle net tag changing new player bug[edit source]

can't exit wild mode[edit source]

Enemy Antondias hang[edit source]

Seal of Champions on Selfless Hero hang[edit source]

Ancient Harbinger - Alarm-o-Bot visual bug[edit source]

' was playing a druid. I had an Ancient Harbinger in play. I had an Alarm o Bot in play. The Harbinger brought in Deathwing, Dragonlord, before it reached my hand Alarm o Bot grabbed it and it was then situated to the right side of the gameboard in an elevated state. Not sure how it looked to my opponent since he resigned the game.'

PC can't play mortal strike[edit source]

Equipped Perdition's Blade tilted[edit source]

Deckbuilding failure to update[edit source]

must be super rare lol

pending overload vs destroying mana crystals[edit source]


EDIT: only visual --PattuX (talk) 16:42, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

EDIT 2: I would like to test using current overload of 1, darnassus aspirant and lava shock for 0. --Patashu (talk) 23:27, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

enemy hero health disappears[edit source]

happened on PC

Mage plus shaman cards in the same deck[edit source] may be brawl related.

may be related: swapped card from deck but still seeing old card in game disenchanted card from brawl deck but could still queue changed deck but played with old cards

Spectator can see enemy Yogg-Saron secrets[edit source]

Cards flying at random angles bug[edit source]

Is this related to

no idea how you'd reproduce it, just saving it because it's awesome

<jleclanche> IIRC it's caused by the scenario id getting all screwy

<jleclanche> and the game thinking it's in tutorial mode

<jleclanche> which has fucky animations for the cards

<jleclanche> something like that anyway

EDIT: another report, same brawl

another report:

Another report in Patch 5.2 (Standard Ranked):

A report in 6.0:

Cards stacked on top of each other when drawing them from deck (or a wrong deck?)[edit source]

I have seen reports like this before, but couldn't find any. Ss there an issue on hs-bugs or a similar report on this page? Also opponent's cards in hand are not moving to their new positions, there is an empty gap instead.

unreproducible life tap hang[edit source]

culinko says can't be reproduced, just saving it here

invisible loatheb vs ragnaros spectator bug[edit source]

loatheb didn't show up in spectator mode, so when ragnaros killed him it looked like he was shooting off into the deck. ->

Servant of Yogg-Saron Tryouts[edit source]

What is the timing of the spell being cast? It's before the On Play Phase, but is it before any of the tags that are set before the On Play Phase begins?

And I guess there's a Forced Death Phase afterwards? (can test if forced or not by trying to trigger a chain death reaction with explosive sheep and etc)

(removing bugs if added to hs-bugs)

Friendly challenge bug[edit source]

Fandral Shenanigans[edit source]

Scenario 1) Control Fandral, play Choose One spell. Before the spell resolves, VT+KJ+Explosive Sheep kills your Fandral.

Scenario 2) Opponent controls Fandral, you control Sylvanas. Play Choose One spell. Before the spell resolves, VT+KJ+Explosive Sheep kills your Sylvanas stealing their Fandral.

Nexus-Champion Saraad visual bug[edit source]

After using hero power to trigger inspire effects, Saraad was in front of his animation

Poison Seeds Treant order[edit source]

In what order are the treants summoned? To test, give both players a Knife Juggler with Ancestral Spirit, and have each player cast Poison Seeds in the same game (to rule out Dominant Player ordering) while sandwiching order of play minions.

Screen off-set on mobile[edit source]

Maybe related to

Log info shown instead of entity name[edit source]

Similar bug as

Barnes vs Sword of Justice[edit source]

Lava Shock possible 11 mana bug[edit source]

Have 10 max mana + 10 current overload, play the coin, then play lava shock for 0. Do you go to 11/10 mana or 10/10 mana? This hasn't been tested before so it's plausible for it to have a bug.

Nefarian brawl tie hang[edit source]

if both you and nefarian die simultaneously, bad things happen EDIT: not reproducible

Ancient Curse vs Discard[edit source]

Is this new or old? Test with other combinations

Non-minion minions behaviour[edit source]

IDK where to even put this. Maybe in the esoteric rulebook?

New tilted minion bug[edit source]

A never-before seen angle!

new misc bugs[edit source]

preparation displayed as 0 mana 0/0 warlock minion[edit source]

full friendlist bug[edit source]

7.0 stuff to test[edit source]

  • madam goya vs brann post-hotfix
  • unlicensed apothecary vs lotus illusionist
  • weasel tunneler vs friendly flesheating ghoul
  • weasel tunneler vs friendly mechgineer thermaplugg
  • buffed malorne in deck (using vt/kj shenanigans)
  • daring reporter vs flame leviathan
  • shaku the collector vs misdirection/mogor/mayor

Proposed Advanced Rulebook layout for sections[edit source]

This section is regarding the layout of the "Advanced Rulebook". To make game interaction rule easy to read, each section should have a consistent layout. Here is my proposed layout, with a box highlighting the rule, followed by a list of clarifications and a few examples. Any exceptions and Bugs are then noted after if there are any.

Rule: Any time a minion's maximum Health is increased, its current Health is increased by the same amount.
Rule: However, when a minion's maximum Health is reduced, its current Health is only reduced if it exceeds the new maximum.
  • Minions track both a "current Health" and a "maximum Health" stat.
  • A 1/1 minion gaining +1 Health becomes a 1/2. There is no distinction between a minion's 'natural' Health and Health granted through enchantments/auras.
  • Effects which grant a minion +X Health actually work by increasing the minion's maximum Health; their current is automatically increased by the same amount
  • Losing current Health due to a reduced maximum Health does not count as damage, in the same way gaining Health does not count as healing.
  • Silencing off a maximum Health reduction is equivalent to adding a maximum Health enchantment of the same value, and vice versa.[1]


  • An Injured Blademaster with 3 current Health out of 7 maximum may be increased to 4 Health (and 8 maximum) by a friendly Stormwind Champion. If the Champion is then silenced, the Injured Blademaster's maximum Health is returned to 7, but his current Health of 4 will not be reduced back down, since it does not exceed the maximum.
  • A Chillwind Yeti (4/5 with max 5 Health) is played. Crazed Alchemist gets played on it and it (becomes 5/4 with max 4 Health). 1 damage is done to it (becomes 5/3 with max 4 Health). When it then gets silenced, the Yeti becomes 4/4 with max 5 Health. This is because its maximum Health is increased from 4 to 5 by the Silence effect, so this also causes the current Health to go up from 3 to 4.
  • An Injured Blademaster is 4/3 with a maximum Health of 7. When you cast Divine Spirit on it, the spell increases both the current and maximum health of the Blademaster by 3 (the value of its current Health at the time of resolving the spell). This resulting Blademaster is a 4/6 with a maximum Health of 10.


  • Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch do not raise or decrease the maximum Health stat. They apply a buff that sets a new maximum Health (see Enchantments section). At the time of application, it also sets the current Health to the new maximum Health.

Sandbox: Advanced rulebook rewrite[edit source]

Moved to Advanced rulebook, go there!

User pages[edit source]

It's probably a bit late to mention, but just in case you don't already know, you can create your own user pages and sandboxes like this User:Patashu/Sandbox. It's usually more convenient than hosting a sandbox on your talk page, and means you can more easily preserve/experiment the page after it's done with, rather than having to remove it. You are of course welcome to continue here, though! -- Taohinton (talk) 16:36, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Bug Report Wall of Shame[edit source]

Volume #2:

Card pages[edit source]

FYI, the answers to some of the questions you pose have already been added to card pages, e.g. Tiny Knight of Evil. Checking those pages might save you some time :) -- Taohinton (talk) 23:38, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, thank you. But I need video to be certain about anything. CMs have been wrong in the past, such as about Baron Rivendare vs Malorne interaction. (Though I will skip making a video clip about something if it becomes very common knowledge before I get around to it.) --Patashu (talk) 04:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Patch nicknames[edit source]

Hey Patashu :) I've posted a comment regarding how best to handle patch nicknames - please check out Talk:Patches. -- Taohinton (talk) 19:38, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Malorne[edit source]

I'm curious re: your recent edit: I thought all enchantments were removed when a card was shuffled back into the deck. If not, are they removed when the card is drawn, or when played? Otherwise a Malorne with Explorer's Hat would get shuffled into deck, get redrawn, get played, and then still have the Explorer's Hat enchantment. Or do you mean they are removed on being shuffled back into the deck, but not until after the Deathrattle should have activated, but was specially inhibited? -- Taohinton (talk) 00:03, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Taohinton. You are correct that a minion shuffled into your deck with an added Deathrattle, added Enchantment or other state will not maintain that changed state when drawn or force played from the deck.
When a minion leaves play for any reason (dying, bounce/sap, recycle/entomb/Malorne's DR, etc) it is reset to a default state and all enchantments are detached. So, by the time Malorne or in fact ANY minion dies, all his attached deathrattles due to spells have been removed already! So the only reason they they're able to trigger at all must be because the game 'remembers' using a different avenue that they should trigger.
And we also know that a minion's added Deathrattles trigger even if the minion dies (trivial), is in play (Feign Death + Ancestral Spirit) or is in the hand (Anub'arak + Baron Rivendare, Anub'arak + Soul of the Forest both work). The only cases left are setaside (pre-4.0 Malorne) and deck (4.0 on Malorne), and in both of these cases Malorne's added Deathrattles do not trigger.
Any other questions, let me know. Admittedly the timing of when a minion's added Deathrattles attach is technical, and only visible if you turn on logging. --Patashu (talk) 01:17, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Champions' Table[edit source]

You are hereby summoned to the 2015 Champions' Table. -- Taohinton (talk) 22:07, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Ways in which MtG and HS rules differ[edit source]

Just for fun! MtG rules are here: and searchable txt here:

Don't add anything to this list that is obvious (for example Fatigue vs losing the game when you draw from an empty deck).

  1. There is no stack in HS. Instead, there is a 'tree' of Phases, Queues, Events and Triggers that resolves like a depth-first search.
  2. In MtG, when an object changes zones, it becomes a new object. See (400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence.). In HS, when an Entity changes zones, it is still the same Entity, and we can exploit this, such as with minions bouncing back to the hand before being effected by a targeted spell.
  3. In MtG, Owner and Controller are different. For example, effects that remove a permanent from play typically specify that they go to the owner's graveyard or hand, not the controller's, but in HS they go into the controller's graveyard/hand. See 701.6 for the definition of Destroy (701.6a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner’s graveyard.). Also, see (700.4. The term dies means “is put into a graveyard from the battlefield.”)
  4. In MtG, when multiple creatures die simultaneously, they can trigger off of each others deaths and even their own deaths. In HS, all the deaths are created before any death events are resolved (and on-death triggers queued and resolved), and on-death triggers can only queue if they are in play, so Cult Master doesn't trigger on any simultaneous deaths including herself.
  5. What we call simultaneous events in HS are really one event in MtG. For example, when multiple permanents enter the battlefield simultaneously, any triggered abilities (including those of permanents that entered the battlefield simultaneously) are able to trigger off of all other permanents that entered the battlefield, because it was one single event. This is incredibly useful for Valakut/Scapeshift decks, as it means that Valakut triggers off of every other Mountain entering play when you resolve Scapeshift, even if you did not have five other Mountains or Malakut in play before resolving Scapeshift. Relevant rule is (603.6a Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are written, “When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . ” or “Whenever a [type] enters the battlefield, . . .” Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-the-battlefield triggers that match the event.) (Look for places the phrase 'single event' is used for more examples.)
  6. In MtG, players choose the order of triggers that would go on the stack simultaneously. (Look for 'APNAP' for more information.) In HS, order of play is used.
  7. MtG has something called the 'intervening if clause'. If a triggered ability is written as 'when X, if Y, Z'. The 'if Y' is checked both when X occurs, and when the triggered ability on the stack resolves. (See 603.4) In Hearthstone, there are 'queuing conditions' and 'trigger conditions', but it is ambiguous what kinds of conditions are which. Sometimes they are both, and sometimes a trigger has DIFFERENT queuing and trigger conditions, and sometimes they are not even written on the card! (For example, Snake Trap has a queuing condition of 'defender is a friendly minion' and a trigger condition of 'board is not full', while Avenge has a queuing AND trigger condition of 'board is not empty', Hobgoblin has a queuing condition of 'minion is 1 attack' and pre-nerf Warsong Commander has a trigger, and possibly also queuing condition, of 'minion is 3 or less attack'.)
  8. In MtG, triggered abilities trigger the moment the event they are watching for occurs, but do not go onto the stack until the next time a player receives priority, e.g. they resolve at potentially a much later time. In HS, they queue and resolve before the event they trigger on resolves and Hearthstone can move on, which matters with stuff like Mad Bomber and Dragon Egg. (Note that replacement effects in MtG ARE immediate, unlike triggered abilities in MtG.)
  9. In MtG, once a triggered ability is on the stack, the object that caused it to be triggered doesn't still have to exist (e.g. be in the same zone it was before) at the time it resolves. In HS, triggers generally can only queue AND resolve if they are still in play (exceptions: Deathrattles can resolve as long as the minion related to the death event is not in setaside or deck, and a couple triggers work in hand like Bolvar and Knight of the Wild).
  10. In MtG, when a permanent becomes a copy of another permanent, it's still the same object, just that its basic stats and characteristics are now that of the permanent it is copying. Rules wise, it is layer 1 in the layer system (see below). In HS, it becomes a new entity and loses all attached enchantments, and gains any attached Enchantments (as well as other changes, like damage) of the target.
  11. In MtG, we have the layer system to decide how multiple effects that change a permanent's characteristics (such as card text, power and toughness) apply. See . tl;dr is that they're applied in the order copy/control/text/type/color/abilities/power+toughness, and in the final layer (power+toughness) we go in the order characteristic-defining/direct set/add-subtract/counters/swap. In addition, if two effects in the same layer are dependent on one another (dependency means that effect A does something different if effect B is applied first) the dependent one goes second, and after doing dependency order we sort by timestamp order. In HS, we have the enchantment list system - Enchantments and Auras effecting an aura are processed in the order they entered the enchantment list, a newly created Enchantment (such as by a trigger, including Enrage effects) applies immediately and enters the list at the end, and every Aura Update (Health/Attack)* step Auras with special priorities (Lightspawn, Summoning Portal, Warsong Commander/Tundra Rhino?, all Health/Attack Auras, NOT! Mana Cost Auras) are re-arranged in the list, then the list is reprocessed. *Should really be called Aura Update (Enchantment) or something.
  12. In MtG, creatures have damage counters. In HS, minions have current and maximum health - when a maximum health buff is lost, current health remains the same unless it would exceed the new maximum health. Also, direct set and swap effects use current Health instead of maximum Health and wipe out damage counters. (However, it's worth noting that under the hood, HS does have the equivalent of damage counters, and used to work MtG style, but the behaviour of maximum health buff losses was changed very early on in the game's beta.)
  13. In MtG, creatures dying due to damage/losing all toughness and players dying due to losing all health are state based actions, that is they occur as a single event just before any player would receive priority. (Then all triggered effects are put on the stack.) In addition, winning/losing the game is immediate. In HS it's similar - creatures and heroes dying is only checked when the current outermost Phase resolves, which is kind of similar to the idea of priority if instants existed in HS - but a hero dying doesn't end the game until the next time Hearthstone checks for win/loss/death (usually not until the current Sequence resolves).
  14. In MtG, a spell/effect with targets does not affect any targets that no longer satisfy the targeting conditions (such as being nonblack, still existing or not being hexproof) at the time of resolution. In addition, if none of its targets are valid, the spell is countered and has no effect at all. (See 608.2b) In HS, a spell/Battlecry with targets does not re-check its targeting condition at the time of resolution, with the exception of Rend Blackhand/Blackwing Corrupter for some reason.

Catchup chance for legendaries, etc[edit source]

I read about the above HearthSim project on Hearthpwn some time ago, and it's certainly something we should have documented on the wiki! I hoped someone in the team might want to write a summary of the process for the wiki, for Card pack statistics. Any takers? -- Taohinton (talk) 03:11, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

The basic summary is that at around 30 opened packs in a row without a legendary, you get an increased chance to get one for each new pack you get without one. There's a similar mechanic in play for epics. Despite 15k packs, the dataset is still too small to be more accurate than that - peer review on reddit found that golden epics / golden legendaries also have their own counter. I'm hoping that we get a patch before the expansion is released proper that reintroduces pack logging and we can do an even larger analysis. Adys (talk) 13:45, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Coldarra Drake/Garrison Commander[edit source]

I'm curious about the meaning of the changes to these cards. Was there a change to the way their effects activate, or were the changes to the Drake notes mostly a rephrase? Also did you mean to say Garrison Commander "continuously refresh"es the Hero Power, when it only allows it to be used twice per turn? -- Taohinton (talk) 22:56, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

"Was there a change to the way their effects activate" Yes. It used to be a combination of a Summon Resolution Step trigger (on itself when it was summoned) and an Inspire Trigger (after you use your Hero Power). This is a funct Now it updates in Aura Update (Health/Attack). I'll rephrase a bit. --Patashu (talk) 00:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Leaving the overall ambiguity of ongoing/triggered effects aside, if the effect is updating itself during the Aura Update Step rather than directly in response to the use of the Hero Power, presumably this means they now behave more like auras? -- Taohinton (talk) 00:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Yeah. And since that's what they should intuitively work like, I think this is a big improvement and removed a lot of the weird edge cases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patashu (talkcontribs) 01:10, 12 May 2016‎
Indeed. I've switched the tag for those to ongoing effect to reflect the new function and intended concept. -- Taohinton (talk) 09:59, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Advanced card text, Patashu version[edit source]

Templating designed to be like Magic the Gathering.


  • Secret: When a friendly minion dies, if you have a friendly minion, give it +3/+2.
    • Tooltip for Spell: Pay the spell's cost and remove it from your hand, then resolve the On Play Phase (stop here if it's countered), Spellbender Phase, Spell Text Phase then After Spell Phase, then check for win/loss/draw.
    • Tooltip for Trigger: When the associated Event is resolved and the conditions are satisfied, queue and resolve in play order on the Event. Almost always requires the related Entity of the Event to still be in play, and the related Entity of the Trigger to be in the expected zone (usually Play, but some minions trigger only in the Hand).
    • Tooltip for Enchantment: An Entity that attaches to another Entity (usually a Minion, Weapon or Hero). It might trigger on Events, modify its tags when applied and removed, modify its tags when Aura Update (Health/Attack) runs and/or wear off when the turn changes.
    • Tooltip for Secret: When this spell is cast, it is not revealed to your opponent (besides its Class) and remains in play until it triggers once or is destroyed. You can have at most 5 Secrets and up to 1 of a specific Secret in play. Can only trigger on your opponent's turn.
    • Tooltip for Random Positive Effect: Random positive effects include mortally wounded (0 or less Health) and pending destroy (hit by a Destroy effect this Phase) targets.
    • Tooltip for Death Event: Whenever the Death Creation Step runs, all mortally wounded/pending destroy minions, Heroes and durability-less weapons are killed and removed from play. If anything died, the next Phase will be a Death Phase, inside of which in timestamp order, their Death Events are resolved, queuing and resolving on-death triggers.
    • (Because this card uses an intervening if clause, the condition is required to be true both when queuing and when triggering. This is analogeous to MtG's intervening if clause, which requires conditions to be true both when triggering and when resolving. See 603.4)


  • Target friendly minion returns to its controller's hand.
    • Tooltip for Target: This card must satisfy a requirement when played from the hand. The requirement does not have to remain true afterwards.
    • Tooltip for Bounce: Moves the minion to the Hand Zone. If the destination is full, instead the minion is instantly destroyed.
    • Tooltip for Instantly Destroy: Unlike normal Destroy effects (which set the minion pending destroy), the minion immediately dies and goes to the Graveyard. However, its Death Event is still resolved in timestamp order in the next Death Phase.


  • Whenever you play a 1-Attack minion, give it +2/+2.
    • Tooltip for Minion/On Play Phase: Pay the minion's cost and remove it from your hand, then resolve the On Play Phase, Battlecry Phase, After Play Phase then After Summon Phase, then check for win/loss/draw. (Triggers related to playing/summoning a minion require the minion to still be in play.)
    • (Because this card does NOT use an intervening if clause, the condition is only required to be true when queuing. Suggested syntax for additional conditions checked only at trigger time is 'if it's currently'.)


  • At the end of your turn, add a Dream Card to your hand.
    • Tooltip for End of Turn Phase: When the End Turn button is hit, resolve the End of Turn Phase, check for win/loss/draw, change the current turn, resolve the Start of Turn Phase, then resolve the Draw Phase.
    • Tooltip for Dream Card: One of Dream, Ysera Awakens, Nightmare, Laughing Sisters, Emerald Drake. (each one would be a hyperlink when moused over)

Freezing Trap

  • Secret: When an enemy minion proposes to attack, return it to its controller's hand. It costs (2) more.
    • Tooltip for Conditional Negative Effect: Conditional negative effects (that have no other side-effects, e.g. not Noble Sacrifice) ignore mortally wounded (0 or less Health) and pending destroy (hit by a Destroy effect this Phase) targets, and also require their target to still be in play.
    • Tooltip for Combat/Proposed Attack Event: When a player attacks with a minion or Hero, begin the Combat Preparation Phase and resolve a Proposed Attack Event. If this caused the defender to change, create and resolve another until the defender does not change. Then resolve an Attack Event and resolve the Combat Preparation Phase. Then if the attacker and defender are both still in play, resolve the Combat Phase (which consists of combat damage, created simultaneously and resolved in the order {defender, attack}, followed by an After Attack Event).
    • (See Advanced rulebook#Combat - due to the distinction between Proposed Attack Event triggers and Attack Event triggers, the syntax needs to be different.)

Truesilver Champion

  • Whenever your hero attacks, restore 2 Health to it.
    • (Retain old syntax for 'Attack Event' triggers.)


  • Aura (Health/Attack): Your other Demon Minions have +2/+2. Aura (Other): Your Hero is Immune.
    • Tooltip for Aura (Health/Attack): Updates in the Aura Update (Health/Attack) Step, which is before the Death Creation Step after each outermost Phase resolves.
    • Tooltip for Aura (Other): Updates in the Aura Update (Other) Step, which is after the Death Creation Step after each outermost Phase resolves.
    • Tooltip for Immune: Cannot be targeted by your opponent. Ignores damage.

N'Zoth, the Corruptor

  • Battlecry: Resurrect all friendly Deathrattle minions that died this game in random order.
    • Tooltip for Battlecry: When this minion is played from your hand, its Battlecry resolves in the Battlecry Phase (which is after the On Play Phase and before the After Play Phase).
    • Tooltip for Resurrect: Whenever a minion dies, place its Death Event (recording the kind of minion that died and who it died for) Death Event Cache. For each Death Event in the Death Event Cache that matches the condition(s), summon a fresh copy of it (and do not remove the entry).
    • Tooltip for Deathrattle: A trigger on the minion's own Death Event that can queue and resolve even if the minion leaves Play, unlike normal triggers.


  • At the end of each turn, Resurrect all friendly minions that died this turn in timestamp order.
    • (Showing different templating)

Power Overwhelming

  • Target friendly minion gains +4/+4 and 'At the end of the turn, Destroy this minion'.
    • Tooltip for Destroy: For a minion, set it pending destroy. It will die the next time the Death Creation Step runs. For a weapon, remove it from play. Its Deathrattle will resolve the next time the Weapon Update Step runs. For a Hero, kill it. For a Secret, remove it from play.


  • Target friendly minion gains +5/+5 and 'At the start of your turn, Destroy this minion'.

Blessing of Wisdom

  • Target minion gains 'Whenever this minion attacks, the caster of Blessing of Wisdom draws a card.'
    • (These kinds of effects are rare, so I figure it's OK to be explicit. Also, note same timing + wording as Truesilver Champion.)

Djinni of Zephyrs

  • After you play a spell, if it's targeting a friendly minion, cast a copy of it on this minion.
    • (Note the Djinni/Entomb interaction.)

Rumbling Elemental

  • After you play a minion, if it's a Battlecry minion, deal 2 damage to a random enemy.
    • Tooltip for Random Negative Effect: Random negative effects ignore mortally wounded (0 or less Health) and pending destroy (hit by a Destroy effect this Phase) targets.
    • (Example interactions: Facelessing a non-BC minion doesn't trigger RE, facelessing a BC minion triggers RE.)
    • (Leaving out Character after 'random enemy' since Blizzard does it as well, but I could go either way on this one.)

Knife Juggler

  • After a friendly minion is summoned, deal 1 damage to a random enemy.
    • Tooltip for After Summon Phase: A played minion resolves the After Summon Phase as its 4th and final Phase, but a merely summoned minion resolves an After Summon Phase right away before Hearthstone can continue.
    • ('How come my Leeroy buffs his Darkshire Councilman?' is a common confusion, so we can circumvent it with this new templating.)

Steward of Darkshire

  • Whenever a friendly minion is summoned, if it has 1 maximum Health, give it Divine Shield.
    • Tooltip for Divine Shield: The first time this minion would take 1 or more damage, instead it takes 0 damage and loses Divine Shield. (Taking 0 damage does not allow damage triggers to resolve.)
    • Tooltip for Summon Resolution Step: After each outermost Phase resolves, the Summon Resolution Step runs (surrounded by Aura Update (Health/Attack) Steps), queuing and resolving SRS triggers on all Summon Events that have been created for minions that entered play since the last SRS (if they're still in play). In addition, the SRS following the After Summon Phase is replaced by a Special Summon Resolution Step, which also includes Transform Events that have been created for minions that were transformed by Battlecry effects this Sequence.
    • (Note the 'intervening if' clause.)

Murloc Tidecaller

  • Before a Murloc is summoned, gain +1 Attack.
    • Tooltip for Presummon Trigger: Presummon Events are created just before a minion enters play.

For reference, qi wrote

Knight of the Wild[edit source]

Any thoughts on this edit? Your ref says "video soon" from September 2015 so not sure if this works or not ;) Either way we should change the Notes section to reflect the current behaviour of the card. -- Taohinton (talk) 17:04, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

It turns out I was too lazy to upload the video, but the information on that page is correct. --Patashu (talk) 23:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Bugs[edit source]

Bugs hasn't really been edited since January. I know there was debate about how best to handle documenting the bugs; a simplified version of the page would be fine, but if your group is no longer maintaining the page, I might as well add some notices and start delinking it from other pages. Can you confirm? -- Taohinton (talk) 10:15, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

I think at this point, the proper solution is to wipe it and make it link to hs-bugs, which is actually kept up-to-date. --Patashu (talk) 13:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Mistcaller/Renounce[edit source]

You seem to be saying the behaviour has changed, but you haven't described the new behaviour. A note on each page describing how the effects now work would be very helpful for readers to understand the cards' behaviour, as well as for other editors updating related or similar pages (eg Hobart Grapplehammer). Also, do you believe the changes to have been made in the 7.0 patch? -- Taohinton (talk) 18:47, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

The change was made in an unknown patch after 5.0. (You can check the bug report forum on blizzard's forums if you want to narrow it down further.) The new behaviour is... well, exactly what's described on the card. How everyone expected them to work: It buffs the cards in your deck at the time you play it now. Edge cases were checked in if you need references. --Patashu (talk) 22:29, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Question about reverse engineered data[edit source]

Hey there, I realized I had some uncertainty about your reverse engineering process for all the HearthSim work/data. I recently claimed to someone that the terms "GRAVEYARD" and "Zone" literally appear in the Hearthstone program, but it occurred to me you guys might have actually just named these yourselves. In other words, is there an actual data file you picked up with the String "GRAVEYARD", or could it just as easily have been called "dead_cards" by the developers?

Unrelatedly...I don't know if this is in your area of influence specifically, but the "Resources we work on" section on is phrased "The Hearthstone Gamepedia Wiki is maintained by HearthSim members and includes work such as the Advanced Rulebook". This is misleading, as most would interpret "is maintained by X" as "is primarily or wholly maintained by X", not "is partly maintained by X, among others". Obviously, HearthSim contributors are one valued group among many wiki editors from the entire community. I wonder if it's possible to rephrase it to something like "HearthSim members contribute to the Hearthstone Gamepedia Wiki, including work such as the Advanced Rulebook."

P.S. Sorry to make you the go-to HearthSim person, but you came to mind immediately and I couldn't remember who else was involved :)

Thanks! - jerodast (talk) 19:16, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

GRAVEYARD and Zone literally appear in power.log . ctrl+f graveyard, zone
Note that the log does not contain literally all information describing the state of a game of Hearthstone (for starters, it doesn't show what timestamp order things are in, and it doesn't show some times health/attack updates if it does not also visually update), but it is more thorough than making arguments based on visual evidence alone.
How to enable logging:
I'm not in charge of editing, jleclanche is. I'll pass your concern on to him. --Patashu (talk) 23:28, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
Fantastic, thanks. I'd seen the labels in the logs before, but didn't realize the logging was so simple to set up and came directly from the game client (like perhaps you guys had analyzed raw integers from logs and applied labels to them in a custom logging client). Exactly what I was hoping to hear.
I assume jleclanche has no presence on the wiki. Happy to contact him/her myself, just figured I'd start "local" first. - jerodast (talk) 01:09, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
I don't think jleclanche has ever edited the wiki, yeah. --Patashu (talk) 01:25, 1 May 2017 (UTC)