Talk:Tar Creeper

Maybe-bug, maybe-note, with Attack-setting effects
Trump sees this at 4:54 then another situation at 7:54. Attack setting-effect always overrides Tar effect, even after the turns have passed to the controlling player and then back to opponent. The question is whether it's supposed to. I can see two approaches/explanations. For both of them, remember that later effects override earlier ones.


 * What seems like it SHOULD happen...

(4:54)
 * 1) Sunkeeper Tarim sets Creeper Attack to 3, up from 1.
 * 2) It becomes opponent's turn. Triggered effect gives +2 Attack = 5 Attack on that turn.
 * 3) Back to 3 on Creeper turn, back to 5 on opponent's, etc.

(7:54)
 * 1) Trump's turn triggers Tar Lord, Attack +4 to 5.
 * 2) Aldor Peacekeeper sets Attack to 1.
 * 3) Tar Lord takes turn then passes back to Trump, triggering Tar Lord +4 back to 5.


 * What ACTUALLY happens...

(4:54)
 * 1) Creeper enters play with ongoing effect that gives +0 Attack or +2 Attack based on turn.
 * 2) Tarim sets Creeper Attack to 3, up from 1.
 * 3) It becomes opponent's turn. Ongoing effect changes to giving +2 Attack, but Tarim enchantment came after the ongoing effect, so it permanently stays at 3.

(7:54)
 * 1) Tar Lord enters play with ongoing effect that gives +0 or +4 Attack.
 * 2) Aldor sets Attack to 1.
 * 3) Turns continue. Ongoing effect sometimes changes to +4 Attack, but Aldor enchantment came after ongoing effect, so it stays at 1.

When you see this isn't marked as a triggered effect (no lightning bolt icon), and understand the enchantment rules, this is pretty clear. But it has struck a lot of people as counter-intuitive, so Blizzard could decide it's a bug and make it secretly a triggered effect. Bottom line is, most people expect ongoing effects to be pretty static, and when they change they get confused. Either way, I will formalize it into Notes section when I have time :) &#32;- jerodast (talk) 07:38, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Yea, I agree, it appears to be an ongoing effect that is somehow overridden with the application of certain enchantments. Could be bug, could be intended, but either way it is really unintuitive just judging from card text alone. Aegonostic (talk) 14:15, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I think I figured out a way to phrase it that seems a little more natural. "Tar Creeper has an ability that makes its Attack either-1-or-3. Then Tarim enchants it to instead be exactly 3." Once you get into the mindset that a power can actually be "set to" two different numbers, a "quantum state" of Attack value if you will, it makes more sense that a single override will kill the changing effect. We just have trouble with this mindset because most Attack values "happen to be" single Attack values not quantum states :) &#32;- jerodast (talk) 03:34, 16 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Welp, that didn't last long: Hotfixes &#32;- jerodast (talk) 07:06, 17 April 2017 (UTC)